Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Or keep your 3.94 final and get the MTS 3, 4, & 5 and a diff. <--- You end up with a better box with closer ratios and a useable 1st gear for the same or less money. ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Come on, mang! Choose a MTS 3rd, 4th, and 5th from the ones they offer and put it in the format like above for direct comparison.... For 30 years guys do what you just did, a lotta guys need comparisons to see side by side what KNOWN GOOD is then the options...I know I do (that's why I did it) I could do it--just did, and I don't even have a Golf... And i know the 1st isn't so hot---but I want cars to STAY quick up to whatever you dare..higher up quickness..so compromised for shorter up top. Show us whatchoo mean, OK? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Sure thing John. Wildert already did all the work for us and even made a graphical depiction....
____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
And, the updated version in MPH from that same thread:
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hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Mod Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
Maybe let's wait a bit for Erik C. to chime in since he just ran that combo at Idaho last weekend. Self-righteous douche canoe Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2015 01:07PM by hoche. |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Erik Christiansen June 13 at 6:52pm · Great first day at Rally Idaho! We finished the day fourth in CRS-2 and seventh in 2wd. But we took 3 minutes off our time from last year! The new transmission is awesome, and we're having a lot of fun! ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Senior Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
Wonder how much better it might have been with a lower R&P and proper 1-2.
Guy needs options in complete, affordable so as to negate the need to compromise as Eric did. If we all could there would be perfectly spaced 1-5 and a FD to match the RPM that we want to run. Say a guy gets a smoking deal on a wicked built bored and stroked ABA that makes tons down low at say 6500 max but then the next guy has a crazy 1.6 that runs 8500, but only makes power from 6500, shouldn't have to compromise. More to come, waiting on an email.... Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Steve, I am not sure of your question...
How much better might what have been? --A lower R&P wouldn't work with those 3, 4 & 5 ratios as top speeds would be less than 100mph The solution I am suggesting has only 1 bad rpm drop for the 1-2 shift and otherwise has great gearing including a useable 1st gear. The lower R&P solution leaves you with at best, an OK 4-speed box with 2 bad rpm drops Short of a full gearkit, the 3,4,5 solution offers the best ratios. And, it is cheaper than the solution involving lower R&P Regarding your last bit about different motors needing different gearing ---- Yup. So, what motor are YOU building or planning to run? ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
but which gears???
So many options! What does it all MEAN? And while its a pretty an tasefully colorful chart, kinda missing rpm on the bottom.. Hence the request for some standardised format---like the format I used.. Numbers are good sometimes---like RATIOS. And of course saying "Happy with" is all good-n-stuff, compared to what previously? Everything is a comparison... better alone is meaningless.."Better than the _________________ I was using before" means something John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2015 02:34PM by john vanlandingham. |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Senior Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
Was referring to Erik's 3 minute time trimming due in part to a better set of gears, if he could have had an ideal 1-2 to go with the 3-4-5 and R&P that gave him the right top speed there's potential to move up a couple places.
Just gleaning from the hundreds of threads about how it's a continual compromise of budget and availability. We are over a barrel so to speak, really only need 1 gearset, and maybe 4 R&P combos to cover most any motor/tire combo. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
The chart is output form the linked excel sheet. You can play with it... http://files.lbrt.dk/Transmissions-US.xlsx ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Was referring to Erik's 3 minute time trimming due in part to a better set of gears, if he could have had an ideal 1-2 to go with the 3-4-5 and R&P that gave him the right top speed there's potential to move up a couple places.[/quote]
I am sure others will chime in here but the 1-2 shift happens, on average, 1-time per stage unless you have a spin or an off. It is very unusual to use 1st gear on US stages for anything other than coming away from the starter clock.
The motor that revs to 6000 vs 8500 RPM will require different gearsets as the gearset determines the rpm drop between shifts as a % of the rpm at which the shift is made. The R&P has nothing to do with this rpm drop. Anyway, how many motor packages do you plan to develop for your rally car? ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Sorry, doooood but I looked at the pretty chart---doesn't tell me a signle thing I'm interested in---or have been asking... You're doubtless a lot smarter than I am so I like things simple like: Gear.......................final drive..................overall ratio I) .....2.29......................5.1..........................11.68 II) ....1.55......................5.1.............................7.9 III)....1.16......................5.1.............................5.9 IV)....1,0........................5.1.............................5.1 V).....0.86......................5.1.............................4.37 fuck all that rpm shit.. And gotta ask--diameter in the chart 57.6cm--- Oh really? Wot da fuq tire on gravel is 57.6cm? a 175/70 x 13? So in THAT format ^ above, which of the 5 available 3rd gears are you suggesting? Which of the 5 available 4th gears? Which of the 5 available 5th gears? Seems simple enough question, no need for strange charts. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
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ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Senior Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
I am sure others will chime in here but the 1-2 shift happens, on average, 1-time per stage unless you have a spin or an off. It is very unusual to use 1st gear on US stages for anything other than coming away from the starter clock.
The motor that revs to 6000 vs 8500 RPM will require different gearsets as the gearset determines the rpm drop between shifts as a % of the rpm at which the shift is made. The R&P has nothing to do with this rpm drop. Anyway, how many motor packages do you plan to develop for your rally car?[/quote] So I am talking directly with a gear manufacturer about a small run of gear sets. Yes technically different max rpms make a potentially huge difference but not in this case specifically. Being realistic about these motors would have at most a 2000RPM window high to low end of the spectrum and with most of the upper ratios running around 1 the overall effect of changing the peak rpm is not that large at all. Here is a really good and well thought out gear calculator that has a lot more going on than a standard spreadsheet. Gear Calculator I'm hoping to hear back tomorrow regarding gears soon but as with all this stuff volume is the best overall reduction in cost. They do carry some ratios but of course its mostly for stock rebuilders. Hoping that a 5-gear set plus the R&P will be sensibly affordable, with hopefully some shelf stock to allow more customization because ordering 2 of or 3 of will likely be no better than going to MTS and paying 100 euro more for one gear on their page than the next. Thinking a one pallet, one flat rate to ship it. Will see what they come up with. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |