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911 Carrera RallyCross Project

Posted by BRAIDusa 
BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 09, 2012 03:34PM
OK, time for a race report. Literally, I finally have time for a race report.

So the car performed flawlessly. Better than that it won it's class! Proof of concept-check.

It was a bit touch and go wether we'd get in but the poor weather kept a few preregisterds away so we were OK. I say we as I shared the car with 9Magazine's Brad Brownell. He knows 911s better than me and needed a ride so we both drove it.

The weather really was appalling, cold and wet. The two thngs I left England because of. I think it worked in our favor though as some of the other rear wheel drive cars couldn't even get off the line without a push. The rear engine in our 911 was just the ticket though the steering was a bit light in some of the soupy bits. Speaking of which I didn't notice any of the understeer people had warned me about. Once moving the car would only really over steer, throtle on and throttle off. Kind of fun. As always in these conditions slow is fast so I just took my time, especially as I had no idea what the car was going to do as I've only really driven it up a down a main road a few times. Got my first ever cone-free event too. This car is going to be great.

So the car works and people love it too. It could use a limited slip diff and those Yokohamas would have been better than the snow tires we had on but we can't complain. Now I have to clean the thing though sad smiley It's not that dirty on the outside but the wheel wells are full of thick goopy mud. I bet it weighs 2-300 lbs more right now.

Heres some pictures:

Look, I'm not the only crazy fool RallyCrossing a Porsche.






3-2-1-GO, er go, go on then, go.










Look for a story about the event at 9 Magazine - The Porsche Enthusiasts Magazine soon




All dirtied up (underneath)





and some video




More rallycross action - YouTube



First rallycross for 911 - YouTube


next event is January 5th. Fingers crossed for snow.



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Ultra Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 14,019

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 09, 2012 04:06PM
Cold and wet....still looks like more fun than stick in the eyes with a sharp stub....

Say a 911 whole box with a LSD t'other day on FleaBay.. Ouch!
Gripper and Tran-x up in the Midlands (now part of the growing Quaiffe Empire) list 911 diffs. Get one!
More fun.
It's only money!



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,937


Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 09, 2012 05:19PM
Now I'm kicking myself for not making the drive up!

As far as the handling goes, I have a strong feeling that your ride height adjustment would have nullified any turn-in understeer, because of what it did to the roll center. It seems backwards but I found the same effect when I did it.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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Ian S
Ian Seppanen
Senior Moderator
Location: Esko, MN
Join Date: 10/19/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 149

Rally Car:
1991 Nissan 240SX


Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 09, 2012 07:06PM
Nice job, looks like a blast.

As for the mud in the wheelwells. I used to try stopping at a do it yourself carwash on the way home. Do a base cleaning right on the trailer. I say used to, because I bought a power washer so I wouldn't have to worry about it.

I learned the hard way after my first event that northern MN mud turns to concrete once dry, and getting it off is tough.



I Seppanen, Car #240
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 10, 2012 06:25AM
Another picture from the weekend's RallyCross. This is what it's all about.





Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 10, 2012 07:20AM
I just had an idea in the shower this morning. The 2013 Porsche Parade is in Traverse City, only 4 hours north of us so we were planning to attend and take this car, my colleague's Carrera and the BRAID sponsored 996 up there and join the fun. Now I'm thinking would't it be fun if there was some kind of RallyCross related event as part of the festivities? This could be either:

a) an actual RallyCross
b) a RallyCross demonstration
c) a RallyCross demonstration with ride-alongs

There are at least two more RallyCrossing Porsches in the Detroit area, possibly more further afield.


What do you think?



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2012 07:23AM by BRAIDusa.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Ultra Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 14,019

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 10, 2012 10:17AM
Quote
BRAIDusa
Another picture from the weekend's RallyCross. This is what it's all about.


That IS a nice piccie. Very nice piccie.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 11, 2012 02:43PM
Our RallyCross 911 came with some polished original Fuchs wheels in 16x6 and 16x7 in the correct offsets for the car: +35 and +23. They really shined up well with a little polish too. Not that I would ever admit to owning any polish mind you. Needless to say we are not going to rallycross 28 year old 16" polished classics like these so they have to go. They are in great shape with no evidence of cracks nor any curb rash. 100,00 mile on the car so 100,00 miles on these I guess. Tires are 205/55 and 215/50 Michelin XGT all seasons with 6/32" of even tread depth but we will sell with or without. My partner Dick put them on eBay this morning:

Porsche Fuchs Polished 16 x 6 16 x 7 Wheel Tire Set | eBay









Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 11, 2012 04:30PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Man, that sucks but look at it as an opportunity to set it a bit higher or whatever.

What do the bottom of the strut tubes look like? Somebody might just be corn-vinced to have a look at the 911 Bilstein inverted 40 inserts that are laying around, but it all depends on the bottom of the tubes... can you post a shot looking straight up from below?

You're right. Tomorrow I have to figure out how to do that. Don't want to go nut's but I little lift would be nice.

You sayin' you might have some Billies available? I'll take whatever pictures are necessary, just not sure what that might be. Front or rear?

Front, 911 but they always reference "Bilstein knuckles". The rod is not threaded, it has a waist that that's pinched.. A typically over complicated, expensive and unique solution to what the entire rest of the world mangaed to do threading the rod thru the strut bottom and running a jam nut down>
Shoot a piccie showing the actual BOTTOM of the tube shot from below.

Did I forget to post this picture John?





Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 13, 2012 08:08AM
Quote
BRAIDusa
Sorry about taking a while to get back to everyone about the duck tail. I was out all day Saturday racing our car and when I got home, late, I was overwhelmed by requests for more information, pictures and shipping quotes. As I can't respond to everyone I've posted the duck tail on eBay as they are good at this stuff and I'm not so. Here's the link:

Porsche 911 Carbon Fiber Duck Tail Getty | eBay

if you have any questions let me know.

Only one day to go on this Carbon Fiber duck tail auction. let me know if you prefer a different shipping method to the one eBay quotes. Greyhound for example.



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Ultra Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 14,019

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 13, 2012 10:55AM
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Man, that sucks but look at it as an opportunity to set it a bit higher or whatever.

What do the bottom of the strut tubes look like? Somebody might just be corn-vinced to have a look at the 911 Bilstein inverted 40 inserts that are laying around, but it all depends on the bottom of the tubes... can you post a shot looking straight up from below?

You're right. Tomorrow I have to figure out how to do that. Don't want to go nut's but I little lift would be nice.

You sayin' you might have some Billies available? I'll take whatever pictures are necessary, just not sure what that might be. Front or rear?

Front, 911 but they always reference "Bilstein knuckles". The rod is not threaded, it has a waist that that's pinched.. A typically over complicated, expensive and unique solution to what the entire rest of the world mangaed to do threading the rod thru the strut bottom and running a jam nut down>
Shoot a piccie showing the actual BOTTOM of the tube shot from below.

Did I forget to post this picture John?


Yep that's the "pinchie thang" hidden in the dirt.. See normally in inverted struts body is up, the shaft or "rod" is down thru the "tube" and the rod is threaded (M10 x 1 on Bilstein 40s) and the bottom of the tube is threaded, you screw the rod in till its snug and run a jam nut down so it doesn't back out.
Good enough for most of the world (some like DMS, use a taper seat, an idiotic idea, some have a hole w no threads , I don't understand) but for Portche, NOOOOoooooooooooOOOOO, they use a clampie thang and the bottom of the rod has a waist the pinch bolt passes thru..
Overly complicated, fiddley, annoying...and typical .

One can of course carve out the bottom, and weld in a 10mm thick disc drilled and tapped for M10 x 1, very easy.. the use the normal inserts...where you have choice.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 13, 2012 05:17PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Man, that sucks but look at it as an opportunity to set it a bit higher or whatever.

What do the bottom of the strut tubes look like? Somebody might just be corn-vinced to have a look at the 911 Bilstein inverted 40 inserts that are laying around, but it all depends on the bottom of the tubes... can you post a shot looking straight up from below?

You're right. Tomorrow I have to figure out how to do that. Don't want to go nut's but I little lift would be nice.

You sayin' you might have some Billies available? I'll take whatever pictures are necessary, just not sure what that might be. Front or rear?

Front, 911 but they always reference "Bilstein knuckles". The rod is not threaded, it has a waist that that's pinched.. A typically over complicated, expensive and unique solution to what the entire rest of the world mangaed to do threading the rod thru the strut bottom and running a jam nut down>
Shoot a piccie showing the actual BOTTOM of the tube shot from below.

Did I forget to post this picture John?

Yep that's the "pinchie thang" hidden in the dirt.. See normally in inverted struts body is up, the shaft or "rod" is down thru the "tube" and the rod is threaded (M10 x 1 on Bilstein 40s) and the bottom of the tube is threaded, you screw the rod in till its snug and run a jam nut down so it doesn't back out.
Good enough for most of the world (some like DMS, use a taper seat, an idiotic idea, some have a hole w no threads , I don't understand) but for Portche, NOOOOoooooooooooOOOOO, they use a clampie thang and the bottom of the rod has a waist the pinch bolt passes thru..
Overly complicated, fiddley, annoying...and typical .

One can of course carve out the bottom, and weld in a 10mm thick disc drilled and tapped for M10 x 1, very easy.. the use the normal inserts...where you have choice.

So are you saying you have a set of inverted Bilsteins available but I would have to modify the knuckles to use them?



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Ultra Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 14,019

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 13, 2012 05:39PM
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Man, that sucks but look at it as an opportunity to set it a bit higher or whatever.

What do the bottom of the strut tubes look like? Somebody might just be corn-vinced to have a look at the 911 Bilstein inverted 40 inserts that are laying around, but it all depends on the bottom of the tubes... can you post a shot looking straight up from below?

You're right. Tomorrow I have to figure out how to do that. Don't want to go nut's but I little lift would be nice.

You sayin' you might have some Billies available? I'll take whatever pictures are necessary, just not sure what that might be. Front or rear?

Front, 911 but they always reference "Bilstein knuckles". The rod is not threaded, it has a waist that that's pinched.. A typically over complicated, expensive and unique solution to what the entire rest of the world mangaed to do threading the rod thru the strut bottom and running a jam nut down>
Shoot a piccie showing the actual BOTTOM of the tube shot from below.

Did I forget to post this picture John?

Yep that's the "pinchie thang" hidden in the dirt.. See normally in inverted struts body is up, the shaft or "rod" is down thru the "tube" and the rod is threaded (M10 x 1 on Bilstein 40s) and the bottom of the tube is threaded, you screw the rod in till its snug and run a jam nut down so it doesn't back out.
Good enough for most of the world (some like DMS, use a taper seat, an idiotic idea, some have a hole w no threads , I don't understand) but for Portche, NOOOOoooooooooooOOOOO, they use a clampie thang and the bottom of the rod has a waist the pinch bolt passes thru..
Overly complicated, fiddley, annoying...and typical .

One can of course carve out the bottom, and weld in a 10mm thick disc drilled and tapped for M10 x 1, very easy.. the use the normal inserts...where you have choice.

So are you saying you have a set of inverted Bilsteins available but I would have to modify the knuckles to use them?

I'm say you may already have inverted Bilsteins, and some 911s did. They just secured them with a really dumb and unique way...
I can't see under the upper cover...

I do have a pair in 911 inverted Bilstein inserts but they will only work in a tube intending to receive them and we don't know from the photo if you tubes are the right tubes.

The bigger or more fundamental question is what do you have in mind for suspension on this car before we spend too much time theorizing?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 14, 2012 08:56AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
BRAIDusa
Quote
john vanlandingham
Man, that sucks but look at it as an opportunity to set it a bit higher or whatever.

What do the bottom of the strut tubes look like? Somebody might just be corn-vinced to have a look at the 911 Bilstein inverted 40 inserts that are laying around, but it all depends on the bottom of the tubes... can you post a shot looking straight up from below?

You're right. Tomorrow I have to figure out how to do that. Don't want to go nut's but I little lift would be nice.

You sayin' you might have some Billies available? I'll take whatever pictures are necessary, just not sure what that might be. Front or rear?

Front, 911 but they always reference "Bilstein knuckles". The rod is not threaded, it has a waist that that's pinched.. A typically over complicated, expensive and unique solution to what the entire rest of the world mangaed to do threading the rod thru the strut bottom and running a jam nut down>
Shoot a piccie showing the actual BOTTOM of the tube shot from below.

Did I forget to post this picture John?

Yep that's the "pinchie thang" hidden in the dirt.. See normally in inverted struts body is up, the shaft or "rod" is down thru the "tube" and the rod is threaded (M10 x 1 on Bilstein 40s) and the bottom of the tube is threaded, you screw the rod in till its snug and run a jam nut down so it doesn't back out.
Good enough for most of the world (some like DMS, use a taper seat, an idiotic idea, some have a hole w no threads , I don't understand) but for Portche, NOOOOoooooooooooOOOOO, they use a clampie thang and the bottom of the rod has a waist the pinch bolt passes thru..
Overly complicated, fiddley, annoying...and typical .

One can of course carve out the bottom, and weld in a 10mm thick disc drilled and tapped for M10 x 1, very easy.. the use the normal inserts...where you have choice.

So are you saying you have a set of inverted Bilsteins available but I would have to modify the knuckles to use them?

I'm say you may already have inverted Bilsteins, and some 911s did. They just secured them with a really dumb and unique way...
I can't see under the upper cover...

I do have a pair in 911 inverted Bilstein inserts but they will only work in a tube intending to receive them and we don't know from the photo if you tubes are the right tubes.

The bigger or more fundamental question is what do you have in mind for suspension on this car before we spend too much time theorizing?

Well, I'm not looking for something too exotic but the car will also be used for autocross and track days so something adjustable might be the order of the day.



Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
BRAIDusa
Paul Eddleston
Professional Moderator
Location: Birmingham, Michigan
Join Date: 09/06/2012
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 424

Rally Car:
Subaru Outback Wagon EG33, 911 Carrera



Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
December 18, 2012 06:59PM
No new developments with the car due to work commitments but some new pictures from the RallyCross have emerged courtesy of Rob Sackyta:













Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA www.BRAIDUSA.com
Team Illuminata Motorsport www.teamilluminata.com
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