Does anybody know this car (Rally Saturn Ion)?

Hell, I'd buy it just for the scull shifter.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Cam, I appreciate you posting this, but, um...

1) It may've had a logbook that was lost. It's possible. If it was logbooked by someone with an "@rally-america.com" address, it would've been Mike Hurst, who was chief scrutineer at that X-Games. No other scrutineer in the country has an email address from there, with the possible exception of Alan Perry, who wasn't a scrutineer at that point.

2) As has been pointed out, the car did not compete in the XGames. It was the 0 car, running course opening. Kim DeMotte was the codriver. I don't know who the driver was, because I'd never seen him before. I am absolutely positive of this because I was codriving the 00 car, which is another course-opening car running just before the 0 car. We were all part of the same course-opening team and interacted a lot.

3) It might've competed in some SCCA events, but not rallies. SCCA stopped doing rallies the year before this car came off the assembly line. It's possible it competed in some rallycrosses though.

4) I do remember that the cage was very well built. I remember it being way overbuilt, in fact - like it'd been built by an offroad truck builder. I don't remember whether it met the rules or not, but it was certainly high quality.

5) Glad you had fun rallycrossing it.

6) Yes, 2006 was the only year 2 wheel drive cars were allowed to run in the X-Games.

I have been at almost every rally in the southwest since 2004. Furthermore, from 2005 through 2010, I was the webmaster for the CRS website, double-checking and posting scores and standings. Since 2011, I have been the Director of the CRS, where I keep pretty up-to-date on who's entered in what. I am also a scrutineer for both Rally-America and NASA Rallysport, and have teched cars at many events. So, I can say with some assurance:

That car has NOT competed in any rallies in the southwest.

Rallycrosses are another story. It may've competed in rallycrosses. That I don't know.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Looks like he has edited the ad to portray the car in a more accurate fashion.

Hoche, Thank you for enlightening me with some real information. I had represented the car with the best information I had at the time I listed it for sale. I hope my edited listing is now accurate.

FIA cage rules were adopted in the 2005 Rally America rule book.

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Grant Hughes

Cam:

Good for you. People have to wade through enough bullshit on ebay. I am glad you are honest.

Get a real rally car and come out and play with all of us.

Wilson

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

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starion887
Just from pix now that I look at this:
- The main hoop bracing is unacceptable to any organization; the lower end does not appear to extend across the whole car.
- The floor bar is angled across the car a bit; may not be an issue IMO. Gotta see if the main hoop is angled across the car as it appears; THAT could be a terminal problem...i.e., rip out and start over.
- No paint is no issue.
- Side bars look a bit problematic but not enough detail to know.
- No A-pillar supports; may be possibly grandfathered without however.
- Looks like 1-1/2" tubing which may or may not be OK depending on organization, car wieght, and grandfathering rules, but hard to tell for sure without measurements.
- I am starting have my doubts if this ever had a logbook from a national rally organization; the main hoop diagonal bracing appears to be of a design that has never been accepted. And the appearance of the main hoop being angled to the longitudinal axis of the car is a problem.

Throw your name in the post so the dude knows who's talking to him. Then go back to spanking JVL.

Being the car was built in '05 it could be an Appendix 1 cage, Mike Hurst would be the final determining voice on that. I wouldn't accept it for a new build now and I can't say I would issue any logbook without some serious discussions and head scratching.

But still...the car is worthy of being owned and if the thing was back out here on this coast I would be dealing on it. I don't have an intelligent way of transporting a Wisconsin car. I'd guess Wilson probably has a guess as to the joy of what that engine is to drive.

Okey-dokey.

BTW it's probably worth adding the same sentiment posted a couple of posts ago; IMO, no one is gratuitously bashing the person advertising this car. But there have been enough misrepresented cars as 'rally cars ready to run' that have caused the buyers much grief and expense, and everyone here is quite ready to call out the issues with these ads.

The advice to anyone new to the sport or the least bit unsure is to get opinions from here or SS forums, and get someone to look at the car who has been in rally for a good while before you bid or buy.

Mark B.

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wvonkessler
Cam:

Good for you. People have to wade through enough bullshit on ebay. I am glad you are honest.

Get a real rally car and come out and play with all of us.

Wilson

Wilson, I might do that some day but I've got to make room first. I am working on a few interesting projects.

For the record, all past inquiries into the details of the car were answered honestly. I had a lot of inquiries about the log book and told them that I was looking into the history but for now it did not have one. In addition I had four people who wanted to send a binding deposit and drive/fly from a long distance to look at/buy the car. One hasn't responded and I talked the other three out of buying the car. Life is too short to waste time on deals that don't make sense. I've made some great friendships with a lot of people in the performance car business and I intend to maintain that trend.

What's ironic is that this is by far the least expensive car I've put up for sale in a long time but, it is the only one that has generated such controversy. Unfortunately for me, a few people assumed that I was trying to rip off some unsuspecting buyer. I've tried to revise my local craigslist ad but my craigslist account has now been ghosted (could have been prevented if they had just called me) so it will make a local sale a little more challenging. Hopefully ebay will work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 11:59AM by batman.

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batman

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wvonkessler
Cam:

Good for you. People have to wade through enough bullshit on ebay. I am glad you are honest.

Get a real rally car and come out and play with all of us.

Wilson

Wilson, I might do that some day but I've got to make room first. I am working on a few interesting projects.

For the record, all past inquiries into the details of the car were answered honestly. I had a lot of inquiries about the log book and told them that I was looking into the history but for now it did not have one. In addition I had four people who wanted to send a binding deposit and drive/fly from a long distance to look at/buy the car. One hasn't responded and I talked the other three out of buying the car. Life is too short to waste time on deals that don't make sense. I've made some great friendships with a lot of people in the performance car business and I intend to maintain that trend.

What's ironic is that this is by far the least expensive car I've put up for sale in a long time but, it is the only one that has generated such controversy. Unfortunately for me, a few people assumed that I was trying to rip off some unsuspecting buyer. I've tried to revise my local craigslist ad but my craigslist account has now been ghosted (could have been prevented if you just called me) so it will make a local sale a little more challenging. Hopefully ebay will work.

Cam, you have to put your real full name up somewhere, that's how we generate some trust here. It's unfortunate but some bring their "other places suspciion" with them and the base level snarkiness---you know what I', saying? An "on line persona"

(which is different in kind and in intention from getting honestly angry OR, just disgusted to the point you have to speak)

What's really behind the reactions is just about everybody here is beginning to
see that there are a lot of "promotions" so enthusiastic that it just ain't true.
And, expensive but kinda weird things are often just pure bullshit.
Basically the more promotion the more bullshit..

And certain geographical areas where certain industries which make make believe seem to be an area where artifice and "promotion" and a lot of things are "aftermarket-ly" puffed up seem to have simply put more likely bullshit than anything else.


Did you see the press release announcing this car where "7 time Baw-jaw champ-peen who's going to "dominate the top placing in rally racing" or whatever horseshit it was?

I didn't then, I did when checking names associated with the original deal.
Bullshit.
Optimistic talk...
No
bullshit.
Never entered one event ever.
Never dominated.
I didn't bother to check if the 7 times Baw-jaw Champ Peen was really a champ-peen or just an e-peen.

Anyway, you sell this thing you gonna run out and buy a sensible, simple fun car? _{that drives from the right end?}

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ok, what does 'ghosted' mean in reference to the CL account?

Still an awesome car on its own merits.

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john vanlandingham

Cam, you have to put your real full name up somewhere, that's how we generate some trust here. It's unfortunate but some bring their "other places suspciion" with them and the base level snarkiness---you know what I', saying? An "on line persona"

Cam is my real name. I just added my last name as well. Am I fully legal now? Why doesn't everyone "have to put there real full name somewhere"? I'm just not too excited about people being able to google my name, find this thread and not take time to read through all of it. It doesn't start out too well as a character reference....I have other "real" race cars that will be up for sale soon.

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John Vanlandingham
Did you see the press release announcing this car where "7 time Baw-jaw champ-peen who's going to "dominate the top placing in rally racing" or whatever horseshit it was?

I did not see this but I will try to find it. Go ahead and post a link. It ain't gonna do any harm here.

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heymagic
Ok, what does 'ghosted' mean in reference to the CL account?

Still an awesome car on its own merits.

Ads for my account are banned from being view-able to anyone. My account shows active but I am the only one that can see my ads. Pretty useless to sell to myself. Since craigslist basically uses the community to police ads, you can easily rally a very small group of friends to "flag" ads and permanently ban someone from being able to sell. This is obviously what happened. The problem is there is no realistic way to get the account re activated....ever.

Thanks for saying something nice about the car. "Pedigree" controversy aside, its well built, mechanically sound and a bunch of fun to drive. My son is pretty attached to the recently added high dollar scull shift knob so I may keep that. With my serious motivation to sell the car someone will get a bargain.

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John Vanlandingham
Anyway, you sell this thing you gonna run out and buy a sensible, simple fun car? that drives from the right end?

Noone has ever pegged me for buying anything sensible and for sure not simple. Aside from a recently adopted family Acura, my other cars are RWD with one AWD. I'm not a big fan of FWD performance cars.

Hey Cam, don't worry about full name or not. I personally like it because I can show up to an event on the east coast where I know not one person but instantly me and say... Brian Barton "know" who each other are based on real names and voila, conversation, beer, and such.
There's one local Subaru guy that I'm acquantences with. About two times per year he'll text me and say, "Yo Grant, you messaged me on <insert a forum> about <insert part> the other day. Give me a call if you have questions." If his name was real on the forum and not some cutesy thing I'd have just called him.

It's possible that car could be grandfathered for Rally America with some additions. NASA Rally rulebook might be a potential route, again with additions.
Biggest issue for current rulebook is that main components of cage needs built with 1.75X0.095 which many components are not, which would mean complete recage. However, if they will allow you to grandfather those components with simply removal of a few and addition of a couple new components that would be nice.
At a minimum needs:
Main hoop X complete. Can't tell if the half X in there is legal (needs to terminate within ~ 4inches of the junction with th back stays and similar location on bottom where cage meets cage feet at floor. (FIA Article 253 8.3.2.1.1 and diagram 253-7)

Door bars need two continuous bars which would be easiest by adding a straight bar above the current V and keeping current sill bar or by removal of the two weird mid to middle down bars and adding a new single angled bar. (8.3.2.1.2 Dia 253-10 for option 1 and Dia 253.11 for option 2)

Add an a-pillar support bar. (8.3.2.1.4 Dia 253-15)

What does it have in the roof? (8.3.2.1.3) It needs an X or a V basically.
Also will need some gussets in main hoop X and possibly in roof if there is an X and possibly in door bars depending upon reconfiguration.

Is it supercharged or just supercharger pulley? Should post some closer pics of the Proflex suspension. Could be worth the asking price just for those!

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Grant Hughes