No FLames for Honesty. You just said what many do but don't say. Doesn't make it not a problem or not a dick move. You Could go, but chose not to.

I've struggled this year. I'm self righteous enough, I've worked 13 rallies none closer than 8 hours away, I've donated $$$ to rallies I couldn't make. Then I started driving. Crashed my car.

Now everytime I think of going to work a rally, The $250 gas money = a new radiator. the $100 food bill is a new trans oil cooler. The $250 hotel bill is half the frame rack bill. Not to mention the time away from my second job that pays the rally bills.


My $0.02: The various series need BIG Corp Sponsorship. Ford, Subaru, BP, Exxon, could write $500,000 checks and it wouldn't be a tenth of a percent of their motorsport/marketing budget. Then volunteers could get paid for there gas. The series could rent out the closest hotels and give them to the volunteers free. I found that, rallying on the cheep, including entry and everything, driving was less than 300% more expensive than working, and that's just fuzzy math.

But,but but, "what's their return??!!?" Probably next to nothing . But it's toilet paper money to them.
It's life blood to us and I know many people in rally are very loyal to companies that support rally.

So somehow your free time, relatives, life is more important than a stage workers? The whole rally thing hinges on volunteers. We can't run without them. Courting and keeping volunteers is critical. Having courteous competitors, as many perks as possible, friendly schedules, good contact methods and training all work into the deal.

I understand the "I won't spend 4 hours to a one day event" but on the other hand someone is expected to drive however many hours, seek lodging, give up a whole weekend just to stand on stage somewhere and make it all possible for the competitor. Doesn't exactly balance out.

As Grant said, no magic bullet on this one.

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imnotcrazy

As I've said before. Competitors need to realize that rallies don't run without Competitors. Why should competitors expect every one else to support their hobby, and not give back to the sport?

Fixed it for you.

Give back? When will my time and money spent prepping cars be given back? Do I collect that from the people that are entertained by watching the races?

Sorry, but I'm on the opposite side of this deal. Teams put enough into getting out there, and that's where the money comes from to put the race on and buy all the swag for the volunteers.

Want more volunteers, do this.
1. Make it known that you're looking for volunteers. Not on specialstage or some other place that 99.9% of people don't look at, do this in the community that you're racing! Combing for volunteers in an area that's 3 hours away won't be very productive.

What we do is pretty damn cool. People want to see it and be involved, but nobody knows it's happening.

2. Make it easy for people to help. If your flyer has a location and time. Make sure it's right.
Maps have to be right too. Treat people with respect and thank them for coming out.

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imnotcrazy

Why should competitors expect every one else to support their hobby, and not give back to the sport?

Because since they were in the womb they've heard one message, one message only different in the degree of the hyperbole:

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You're sooooooo special you desrve the LUXURY of fine Corinthian leather, you deserve eveby's attention when you struggle with shooting a basket, the world stops when you are on THE CENTER STAGE!
You need hundreds of people to wait in breathless anticipation for you to come by because you have a BLUE SUBARU and sfter doiong 4 timy events with 15-17 of various other cars you NEEDED a $17,000 dog-box, so now you need SPONSORSHIP...because you driving no quicker than some other guy in a stock 2.5 RS is SPECIAL.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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RnJ
Give back? When will my time and money spent prepping cars be given back? Do I collect that from the people that are entertained by watching the races?

I hope this is a joke.
Your time spent prepping cars is 'given back' when you start the first stage. If you're 'doing this for the spectators,' then you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

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RnJ
Teams put enough into getting out there, and that's where the money comes from to put the race on and buy all the swag for the volunteers.

Done right, the entry fees cover some volunteer out of pocket costs, far from all of them. At some point an organizer needs to balance off entry fees vs. 'discretional' spending. Yes, you could probably cover accomodations for every volunteer and feed and fuel them - but entry fees would probably come close to doubling in some cases.
I'm not sure about south of the border, but regularly in Canada we have as many, or more, volunteers as we have drivers and co-drivers. (There are a LOT you just don't see out there)

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RnJ
Want more volunteers, do this.

Everyone around here appreciates the obvious being pointed out, so thanks for your suggestions. Essentially it boils down to this:
- freely ask for help
- be prepared to accept the help (this is often tougher than it sounds)
- educate the volunteers in what they need to do
- provide clear instructions on when and where they need to be
- be respectful and thankful

Edit:
On reflection, there are times an event (or a series) will ask competitors to 'give back' in the course of a competition. 'Super Special' stages that are nothing but a show, Parc Exposés in a high vis. location, 'TV' interviews at odd hours, and so-on.

In most of these cases the activity is tied to exposure which supports sponsorship. (Sometimes the exposure supports community involvement and helps with road permissions) More than once I've sat through a parc exposé knowing it was a PR exercise but itching to get back out on the stages (or to have had a shorter day by not being there in the first place.)

But, that's all part of what goes on.
- The events need Volunteers (from the very top down) and Competitors
- The Competitors need Volunteers and Events
- Volunteers 'need' Events and Competitors

The only thing is that the 'investment' in being a volunteer - excluding the senior organisers - is a fraction of the Event or Competitor investment. Not just financial, but emotional investment as well. Most volunteers wouldn't feel 'empty' if a rally event didn't happen.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2013 10:58AM by Morison.

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heymagic
So somehow your free time, relatives, life is more important than a stage workers?

Never said that. Did I??

I was only expressing my own opinion and viewpoint--that on that given weekend and on many (most?) weekends I value my personal life above that of my ability to give back to the sport. That may change as the circumstances in my life change (as I age, stop driving, cease having children and a wife/life that seems to need constant attention) but for now, this is where I am. "I regret that I have but one life to give to Rally and that this one life is pulled in many opposing directions. I humbly ask that you accept me for who I am..."

---

www.nismostuff.blogspot.com

I resonate with that. That's why, even though I started by being a worker 33 years ago, I waited until my kids (all 6 kids and step kids) were through secondary schooling before I began competing myself. Delayed gratification.
And as Morrison said, I sure hope RnJ was joking.

---

Don Kennedy

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bknblk2
Now everytime I think of going to work a rally, The $250 gas money = a new radiator. the $100 food bill is a new trans oil cooler. The $250 hotel bill is half the frame rack bill. Not to mention the time away from my second job that pays the rally bills.


My

Of course I'm joking about the payout. This isn't stock car racing. There are no paying spectators and payout windows.


Quote above says it perfect.
Do you want 1 more volunteer at this rally or 1 more car at the next race?


Bottom line is that everyone does as much as they can without burning out.

No. We're talking about this statement when we say we hope you're joking.

"Give back? When will my time and money spent prepping cars be given back? Do I collect that from the people that are entertained by watching the races?"

As Morrison said. Your time and money is given back when you start the first stage (hoping you finish the last stage).

---

Don Kennedy

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NoCoast
I've been a proponent for years of requiring each entry to supply one worker or pay an additional fee. Works for local hill climbs, though the fee has to be high enough to motivate people. I heard the CHCA had issues with not having enough workers to pay with the $25 a day fee.

Many years ago in a galaxy far far away.... I suggested that there should be some threshold of number of rallys per sanctioning body that a team could attend without the driver being required to work a rally (or part of a rally).

I said this should extend to the top teams too with one possible exception: the top teams would pay multi-thousand dollar entry fees to PAY for workers.

The hate mail was epic.

I like volunteering. OTR I learned start/FF. Spect marshal, road marshal. wasdifferent being behind the wheel at Nameless, I made a point to thank everyone we saw. especially those i recognized. Its just my vac selection that blows for matching up more then 2 rallies a year.

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Morison

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RnJ
Want more volunteers, do this.

Everyone around here appreciates the obvious being pointed out, so thanks for your suggestions.

Someone needs to tell the king that he's not wearing any clothes I guess.

Another obvious spot to hit is the car forums. There's tons of them and these should be a frequent bulletin board for volunteer seekers. Not just the Subaru ones either. I peek at a couple now and then and it's very rare to see anything about a rally anywhere. If there is a post about it, most of the responses are positive and "Where can I see one by me" type of stuff.

This would be a lot more productive than trying to guilt trip past competitors into volunteering. New blood in the sport isn't a bad thing, even if they wear their hat wrong.

...or do what you always do and get what you always get.


Payout is not a bad idea either. I used to be involved with this little program called MaxAttack. We gave racers some big checks. They liked it and it brought a lot of cars out to play.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2013 10:29PM by RnJ.

I've gotten a handful of new volunteers from posting at a non-car site (or, former car site, whatever). However, none of them locally, but I figure at least I talked them into it and some now volunteer every year for this or that rally here or there. Sometimes I even get non-rally friends to come along and help. If anyone says "where can I" I do the searching and I post up links and I suggest volunteering. Most spectate, but once in a while you snag a lifetime fan and worker.

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12xalt
I've gotten a handful of new volunteers from posting at a non-car site (or, former car site, whatever). However, none of them locally, but I figure at least I talked them into it and some now volunteer every year for this or that rally here or there. Sometimes I even get non-rally friends to come along and help. If anyone says "where can I" I do the searching and I post up links and I suggest volunteering. Most spectate, but once in a while you snag a lifetime fan and worker.

That's awesome! People want to be involved or at least see it if they find out there actually is rally in this country besides x games.

Next step for them is going to be finding out how they can get into a car. I'd bet that a lot of people spectate before they build a car right?

NEFR 13 was my 5th year of voluntering and i have had a blast every year, good times in the woods. That smell of Deet, race fuel and burning rubber on gravel is something you dont get to experiance anywhere but rally. i have worked as a spectator wrangler, road marshall start and finish control. i might have been nieve in the past but the last two years i have come to realize vary few who are involved in rally are neighbor like. competitors and workers alike.
i cant tell you how many drivers/co-drivers get annoyed when i ask " belts tight, hans good?" at the start. How about she who will go unnamed, lets call her chrissie beavis who insits she gets and extra minute at every start " we need another minute, were not ready yet, the car in front of us is too slow, blah blah blah blah." you start at your allocated time or when you are ready to do so safely. no i will not hang out in full sunlight for another minute because you are unprepared.
Back in 2008 or 2009 i was able to get a picture of myself, KB, travis pastrana and chris duplessis. that was the highlight of my rally volunteering career. This year I felt block was completely un approachable, Windows up, walking around with a posse and immediatly unavailable after the champagne spray.
Alot of mid pack guys remind me of those people who you work with who make a ton of money for handing off actual work.
Dont get me wrong there is still plenty of awesome people involved in the sport, i could easily approach Anthoine lestage in the supermarket and at the podium. i have partied with Wyatt Knox in the woods, watched him fall into a river...