Rally Mercedes?

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think they were developed for the DTM
> > championship and not for rallying. There
> were a
> > few guys in the Finnish Gr. F that used the
> 190
> > 2.3 16V but not sure how successful they
> were,
> > maybe JVL knows more.
>
> My understanding is that JVL's understanding is
> they are a bit of a cluster fuck to be polite.

Hey you guys, don't you see all the outrage and clucking over on the Other Place about my supposedly crass language!!!!
Come on!!!!!!!!!!

Don't you know you get a pimple on your tongue every time your use Uglymouth?

So's any more of youse galooys use nughty terms I'm gonna hafta come ova dere's and FUCK YOUSE UP!

As for the 2300 Cossie head MB things---well why not if they're laying around and anywhere else there were plenty of 190E SHELLS laying around.

Not the case here.
>
>
> Andrew McNally
> Hamilton ON
> 28

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

From not to long ago if you do a search:



Re: BMW power cheap
Posted by: Topi (69.230.131.---)
Date: April 15, 2007

- Sample choise of core: [losangeles.craigslist.org]
- MB 2.3-16V is a wonderful engine (185hp) but first you must fix Limey screw-ups, like hone the valve guides so they don't jam (factory recall but hardly any of the owners got them fixed). 190 chassis is junk. Horrible "circulating ball" steering, front end and failing hyd clutch. K-jet can't handle any cam changes and slow as hell to rev. And have a nice day adjusting shim-under valves every 5000 miles on hi-reving race engine. I know this car well 'cause I had one. It's fine as is but no thanks for rallying.

http://www.rallye-info.com/carmake_profile.asp?make=6

The Mercedes story is quickly told. It all started sensibly in the 1950s and 1960s with their old models, in particular the 220SE, 230SL & 300SE. These cars won the ERC in 1955, 1956, 1960 & 1962, but already in these days the Mercedes name became more identified with long distance, marathon style rallies, such as the Liége-Sophia-Liége Rally which the team won in 1962 & 1963. But then it became quiet again around Mercedes and as before the make concentrated more on circuit racing.

By 1977 Mercedes was back and incredibly the story was not inspired by the works team but by the British Mercedes importer preparing a 280E, even UK registered ULL 772R, and winning the London-Sydney Rally 1977 with it. Mercedes then entered a number of 450SLC into another marathon rally, the Grand Premio Sudamericana 1978 and again won. From here Mercedes then turned to a proper WRC program, but all they proved was that they really had the wrong ideas about rallying. Just before the start of the 1981 season Mercedes pulled out and was never seen again. With the introduction of group A rallying a few 190E 2.3-16 appeared, which was actually a well handling, although underpowered RWD car, but these were in no case works supported and soon disappeared again.

Why Mercedes had the wrong attitude, why their WRC program was regarded as an embarrassment and why they pulled out very suddenly in disgust is already in detail described in the description sheet to the Mercedes 450SLC (group 4), so please look there for more detail and the wider, fairer picture.

OK, a key situation we describe to you already here: For 1981 Mercedes planned a full WRC season and they signed Walter Röhrl and Ari Vatanen both for 5 years. During the testing for Monte Carlo 1981 the Mercedes bosses phoned Röhrl and asked: "Is there any chance that we might not win this rally?". You and me, like everybody who remotely understands rallying, know too well that you never ever can predict anything in rallying, so Walter's answer was an obvious one - yet Walter's answer was enough for Mercedes to pull the plug on their rally program! Be honest, if that is the attitude, aren't you glad they buggered off?

COLOURS & TYRES:

Not much fantasy on this part. You will find that in the 1960s about every car make had their bonnets in a matt black, which was thought to reduce possible driver irritation through sun reflection. Mercedes still had that feature in the late 1970s. Otherwise the cars were just plain silver, some of the 280E and 280CE models were white. Mercedes used Pirelli tyres.

REGISTRATIONS:

As described the project was inspired by the UK Mercedes importer winning the 1977 London-Sydney Rally with a 280E. This being an importer's car, it was accordingly registered ULL 772R, with the L as the 2nd digit of the 3-letter-block identifying London. Everything that followed were proper works cars and accordingly registered in Stuttgart, Germany, indicated by areal code S before the dash. The "S-" is followed by 2 letters and a 4-digit number. This must have been a new size reg plate for Stuttgart at the time. Stuttgart is big, but by far not as big as i.e. München "M". In our database, as new Mercedes are joining in, you can see a sequential order in these reg plates ("DP", "DV", "DX", "EH", which in the German registration system is very unusual indeed! There also are some Mercedes appearing with reg plates starting KS. This stands for Kassel and the cars actually belong to Scuderia Kassel, a motorsport minded Mercedes dealer.

WRC Championship Standings List :
Yr Pos. Manufacturer Class Events

1980 66th. Mercedes (29pts) Open 12


1979 8th. Mercedes (35pts) Open 12


1978 15th. Mercedes (12pts) Open 11



Mercedes Rally Cars:

M

Model & Evo. (Activity)
BHP@
RPM Torque
(Nm)@
RPM Length
Width
Height Weight
(Kg/BPM
Ratio)
Trans.
(W'base)

W107 450SLC 5.0 (78-80) 310/5400 430/4000 4750.1750.1331 1430 (4.6) RWD (2815)
W107 500SL (81-81) 380/6500 450/5000 4750.1750.1325 1330 (3.5) RWD (2815)
W107 500SLC (80-80) 340/6500 430/4000 4750.1750.1331 1395 (3.9) RWD (2815)
W123 280CE (80-82) 230/6000 255/5500 4640.1786.1395 1320 (6.75) RWD (2710)
W123 280E (78-79) 218/6000 255/5500 4725.1786.1438 1365 (6.3) RWD (2795)
W123 300D (78-79) 110/4000 195/2400 4725.1786.1438 1365 (12.4) RWD (2795)
W201 190E 2.3-16 (87-88) 220 0 4430.1706.1361 1130 (4.2) RWD (2665)

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.