New guy here

Richard Miller Wrote:
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> If God had meant for Texans to
> drive on white stuff,

I imagine that must have been an extremely weird experience for you. I drove at least 2,250 km in 2+ inches of snow this year and plenty of that was considerably more. The slipping around just makes it better!

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

CARS won't until 2009 (unless there was a bulletin issued after Perce Neige). But CARS will require an FIA approved horse collar, so don't buy anything other than a HANS if you plan to compete north of the border or anywhere else on the planet that may require said device. Why spend $800 twice.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Is CARS requiring FIA approval and not SFI?

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RichardM

When it snows in Dallas, I explain to people that I can drive in slippy stuff, I have an AWD car and if needed, I even have chains for at least one of the cars. So I know exactly what to do, put another log on the fire and have another hot buttered rum!

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RichardM

CARS requires FIA approval to run the CARS championship. FIA is HANS only. I believe US competitors can use SFI in Canada if they don't run for championship points.

Supposedly the R-3 people are working on a certification .

heymagic Wrote:
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> CARS requires FIA approval to run the CARS
> championship. FIA is HANS only. I believe US
> competitors can use SFI in Canada if they don't
> run for championship points.
>
> Supposedly the R-3 people are working on a
> certification .

Gene, we all know that the reason for the rule is a prophylactic move to protect Mr Doug Havir from potential litigation.

Hurst has repeatedly said that very thing in so many words with his lawyerese talk about "where would we be if we were shown to not be using "best practices?!".

It is really disappointing that who ever it is within CARS who decided to spring the rule on them, and there was considerable stink about the way it was shoved onto them, as there was some hope that they would go along with this idiocy because they CARS is not a privately held corporation with monetary assets to protect.

Because that's what the HANS is protecting: somebodys money.


And let's try and be more precise about just when and where the FIA requires HANS, rather than stupidly asserting, as Havir's minion does, and which has been shown repeatedly to be utterly false, that HANS are required "by every top line Organisation worldwide".
FIA requires them for FIA listed INTERNATIONAL events.

Seems the simplest solution is to not list what we run which are really club events + a couple boys towing long distances, as INTERNATIONAL---ya know drop the facade, solve a problem.

And let's repeat again: HANS are NOT required for all classes in rallying anywhere else in the world. A couple of places require it for A8 class only.

It is impossible to guess what is behind the absurd claims that HANS is required by "EVERY top" organisation, whether it is a calculated cynical lie maintained by an obvious arrogance, or a monumental ignorance fueled by the same appalling arrogance and cynicism.

Whatever it is , we don't have to maintain a pose here, indeed we ought to work against this silly charade.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I am not singling out RA. I am talking about all sanctioning organizations. I won't be able to rally until 2015, so what will be required then in every car by then? Fire suppression systems, GPS transponders, etc.

I wasn't trying to cause a big stink here, just say hi. Well I gotta go wash my Blue WRX before the NASACR race starts...and I'm not joking. Go Tony.

Mike

Mike....

Nice video work.

Ray and I had a good time at Doo-Wops.

The Volvo went real good... As good as it ever has in fact. I've finally had the time and dough to put the good bits in it for suspension up front and let me tell you that the good stuff is well worth the dough. I just wish that I had purchased it when the exchange rate was favorable for us Yankees.

Welcome to the party.

John Lane

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2008 10:30AM by JohnLane.

actually FIA requires them for international events only if your entry is for the championship. In other words, if you are running a IRC or ERC event and that event is part of your national championship (some countries require "Factory team" entries to have Hans in all events) and you are registered national only you also do not have to run Hans.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

the car was much twitchier after i put that dent in the drivers door (bending rear axle in process)

Mike, you've been kind to us in the past, thanks for the solo look in this video.
See were up there with Lane!

I hate to bring up Bullshit Hype, but it seems that 70% of what is done here and SS.com is BS Hype.

Let me explain; Buy these! Don't race these! you have too many cats (shit that has NOTHING TO DO WITH getting your rocks off in the woods) Rally-A-NASA smells funny! RWD KICKS ASS (it does)

I like to see all people doing the best they can with what they've got. (Lane got the shocks and finish he wanted)
you don't have to hype RWD (or anything), you just have to be having a good time.
which is why it's great to have the video to prove it.

we're having a Fucking Blast out there (Lane was too). That's All. I'm glad you get a kick out of filming it.

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"I put the hurt on dirt" - adam crane
http://CraneRallyCrew.com
corolla gt-s "Patches"
Op: S.S.

Mike you are hardly a new guy we all love you man!

To delve into the details of HANS... from a lay man's perspective. So far most if not all the suits against sanctining bodys in the US have been tossed out as we all sign wavers that say motorsports may kill me etc. The waver shields the sanctioning body as long as a threshold called (I think) gross negligance is not crossed, ie this is where the sacntioning body did something that was known to be harmful and that resulted in someone getting harmed.

A big case on this was about hay bails at a track about 10 years ago.

SO the problem for the sanctioning bodies, since someone invented hans and some people think it is best practice to use it, if someone died and it could be shown in court that a hans would have saved the life, would it be gross negligance not to have required it? No one knows the answer to that and it will cost someone tons of money and someones life to find out ie when it gets tested in the courts. So faced with unknown down side exposure to risk that will cost at least 6 figures to defend or requiring someone else to spen $900 on their safety what would you do?

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In the long run reality always wins.

So faced with unknown down side exposure to risk that will cost at least 6 figures to defend or requiring someone else to spen $900 on their safety what would you do?

Be damned sure that included in the waiver are some manner of leagalize that say "By my belonging to the organization sanctioning this event I agree that should I be killed or injured that no lawsuits of any kind will be filed regardless of reason."

The HANS requirement at $1800 per car smells like someone almost HAS to be getting a little 'thank-you' for the requirement.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Hans has been around as a company since the early 80s. They built relationships and made friends and waited until the right moment, probably when those friends had climbed to the correct levels of authority, to launch their product and make sure that the exact fear and legal situation that Derek has mentioned would occur and all sanctioning bodies would have to mandate it eventually.

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Grant Hughes

It is a little odd that SCCA has yet to require HANS for racing while NASA race but not NASA Rally Sport, has.

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RichardM

JohnLane Wrote:
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> So faced with unknown down side exposure to risk
> that will cost at least 6 figures to defend or
> requiring someone else to spen $900 on their
> safety what would you do?
>
> Be damned sure that included in the waiver are
> some manner of leagalize that say "By my belonging
> to the organization sanctioning this event I agree
> that should I be killed or injured that no
> lawsuits of any kind will be filed regardless of
> reason."
>
> The HANS requirement at $1800 per car smells like
> someone almost HAS to be getting a little
> 'thank-you' for the requirement.
>
> JohnLane
>
> Overkill is consistently more fun

Rally America does not require HANS, they require SFI aproved restraints.There are currently several companies with different devices that are approved. HANs is just one of them. With the newest generation of devices being priced at $700 it is getting more affordable. Still expensive, but there is not enough money or volume involved to warrant any off shore mystery accounts.