john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Over on SS.COM there's a bunch of what i think is extremely misplaced cheerleading and encouragement for one of our Brothers to build what I have seen often enough to be a real lost cause: a Pick up.
Now since I am driven to say the least about RETENTION of folks in this sport and have seen so many people spend lots of money and time on projects I know will not live up to their dreams and then sell off the stuff and drop out after 1-2 seasons and DISAPPEAR, I try hard to make sure that people end up in cars they CAN STICK WITH and GROW WITH. So Jonathon, since I am exiled to Siberia by the HARDLINERS at SS.com I can't try and talk reason to you there, so I'll start this thread and ask you pop in here. (Which after all was founded with the exact same sentiments as I understand your new forum was.) So let's start. You said your thinking of building something like your link: You think you can go down rally roads with something like that as quickly and have as much fun as with a normal sedan??? Really??? Mark Bowers says that a truck is cheaper. But we have guys other than me saying important sheet in a thread like this which is my point: How is building a truck cheaper than building a Volvo 240? They both need cages.. which will cost you roughly the same. Sure you need to do some mods to the volvo.. but nothing crazy.. the T5 swap is like falling off a log and you don't need to do that right away. The suspension solutions are already out there. And there's no way I'll accept that any production truck is better suited to rally than a 240. I've driven trucks since I could drive and maybe you could make them behave better with lighter springs.. but generally speaking they handle like pigs.. And Lee, you don't have to be good at all to notice the difference between a noodley body on frame to a decent unibody. That being said I haven't driven a truck with a cage.. which should stiffen them A LOT. In fact, you could lighten the frame considerably to the point where you could design a whole new frame.. but wait, you're now into massive amounts of fabrication/modification. That being said Mark has a good point with the better being the enemy of good enough. I honestly think that if Volvo didn't have such a shitty image over here there'd be 10x as many racing.. but then they might not be so cheap. Edit: I can't believe I didn't say my favourite saying.. a Volvo 240 or earlier is a unibody truck with coil springs in the rear. Honestly, other than that, whats the fucking difference (okay 240s have struts). You can choose if that's arguing one way or the other smiling smiley haha Andrew McNally Hamilton ON 28 So should we tally the supposed costs involed or just look at the photo. To my mind the photo alone should close the discussion but somehow people are saying "Ja Shore ya betcha, no problem" so somehow I guess I am not unsderstanding something somewhere. What is this fixation with truck which are faily guaranteed to flip over at sillily low speeds---and that I have seen often enough in the woods here in Washington. Now remember Jonathon, we are not in anyway imaginable discussing YOU or you worth as a person or your intrinsic value as a human being, the subject is truck cost and effectiveness and FUN over a period of years vs an ordinary unibody CAR. So please don't plead something about our manners or the tone here. There is nowhere more concerned with helping people have more fun with less than right here. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Dazed_Driver Banned Elite Moderator Location: John and Skyes Magic Love liar Join Date: 08/24/2007 Posts: 2,154 |
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Francois Francois Poirier Ultra Moderator Location: Montreal, qc, Canada Join Date: 02/25/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 222 Rally Car: Open class Laser RS (RIP), 242 GT on the way! |
I have a ramcharger to go camping and Fishing.
It's 4" higher than stock, better suspension, borgeson steering shaft to have a good feeling of the road, 33" BF AT tires. I go fishing every year at my secret lake, which happens to be around the road used by Perce-Neige rally. It's next to the "Tortue" stage for those who know the place. On a nice summer day, right after the grader has leveled the road, I can average about 50 km/h on that road (about 30-35 mph). The fastest I could go was about 80 km/h and that was just plain dangerous, I was fighting to keep the truck on the road. When I look at the speed average during Perce-Neige, which is run during winter, on ice covered roads, without studs, it's around 100-120 km/h (60-70 mph?). There is no way my truck could keep up with that, even with all the power in the world and a better driver behind the wheel. Oh and it's just not fun trying to drive fast in such a big vehicle. Francois |
TerribleOne Vince McAllister Professional Moderator Location: Mangohick Va. Join Date: 08/11/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 71 Rally Car: 89 Volvo 244tic |
My title says my rally vehicle is a 76 ford pickup.. but thats only because It's the only thing I have that runs..
If I did invest money into rallying a truck I encourage all of my loyal friends to SMACK THE SHIT OUT OF ME! If I had dime for every time I got a car sideways on the farm I'd probably be able to buy JL's car from him cash. Trying to get a truck to dodge trees isn't exactly my idea of fun.. -Vince Stroker 2.5 redblock, JE forged blower pistons 8.2:1, Eagle H beams with DSM big end, Avalanche underdrive pulley, 46/40mm valve 530 with Enem C2 turbo cam, Isky db springs, SDS efi w/DIS/wasted spark, PCS digital touch screen dash/logger, 60lb Deka IV's, ATP 60-1 @ 22psi, Tial bov, Walbro 255, Avalanche T-5 adapter, 02 Tremec 5sp, 6puck, 3" driveshaft, modded G80, Painless chassis harness. Corbeau seats.. 300+whp Driven daily.. |
Eddie Fiorelli Eddie Fiorelli Mod Moderator Location: Long Beach, CA Join Date: 11/20/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 243 Rally Car: mk2 VW GTI |
I don't know...I never considered a rally pickup when I lived on the east coast..but after seeing the roads in the southwest and limp over boulders while Bill Holmes takes overall 1st in every event he enters out here makes me wonder... Depends on the roads, no?
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I don't know...I never considered a rally pickup > when I lived on the east coast..but after seeing > the roads in the southwest and limp over boulders > while Bill Holmes takes overall 1st in every event > he enters out here makes me wonder... Depends on > the roads, no? Damn dude, whatcha wanna get all sensible and actually put Bill's results into CONTEXT for?? Sheeeeeeeut! But yes of course it depends on the roads and it depends on the anticipated speeds. Maybe some genius Injur-near to be can find a diagram showing just why ships capsize and whay an inevitably TALLER pickup would want to do the same....... > > > John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Eddie Fiorelli Eddie Fiorelli Mod Moderator Location: Long Beach, CA Join Date: 11/20/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 243 Rally Car: mk2 VW GTI |
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Vorpal_Rally Stinkfinger Lipschitz Mega Moderator Location: Uranus Join Date: 02/17/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 325 |
Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Bill don't roll...He drives through mountains > > (scratch that, he did roll...at a Rally > Cross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) So does that mean that Buckaroo Banzai sold him the oscillation overthruster???? In all seriousness, Trucks- High desert off road racing=the correct choice of vehicle. check out Alan Pfluegers Flyin Hawaiian trophy truck and the Trevor Harris diff for that sucker. I damn near creamed my britches when I saw that. It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion. William Ralph Inge TANSTAAFL |
Yes the roads matter. Has anyone tried adding some serious ground clearance to their car and seeing how it performed on roads that are truck favorable?
What are we calling a truck here? Trophy trucks are tubular framed rwd vehicles... that happen to have something that looks like a truck body. They could be called Trophy Station Wagons just as easily.. although that lacks something. Vorpal_Rally Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Eddie Fiorelli Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Bill don't roll...He drives through mountains > > > > > (scratch that, he did roll...at a Rally > > Cross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) > > > So does that mean that Buckaroo Banzai sold him > the oscillation overthruster???? > > In all seriousness, Trucks- High desert off road > racing=the correct choice of vehicle. check out > Alan Pfluegers Flyin Hawaiian trophy truck and the > Trevor Harris diff for that sucker. I damn near > creamed my britches when I saw that. > > menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la mort! Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Senior Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
So how do you explain Bill's second and third overalls back in '88 and '89? Happy Trails PRO Rally 1989, Olympia, WA. 2nd Overall. Chattahoochie Forest Rally 1988, Atlanta, GA. 4th overall. STPR 1989, 3rd Overall. There're a bunch of others he placed in the top in, but I'm too lazy to post them. rallyracingnews.com.
And we know it's all true cuz it's posted on teh interwebs. Self-righteous douche canoe |
hoche Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > So how do you explain Bill's second and third > overalls back in '88 and '89? Happy Trails PRO > Rally 1989, Olympia, WA. 2nd Overall. > Chattahoochie Forest Rally 1988, Atlanta, GA. 4th > overall. STPR 1989, 3rd Overall. There're a bunch > of others he placed in the top in, but I'm too > lazy to post them. rallyracingnews.com. > > And we know it's all true cuz it's posted on teh > interwebs. I don't know the rallies.. but obviously they're rough and he had a better suited vehicle. Have to be really careful about this Cars Vrs Trucks dichotomy. Bill could have shortened a buick roadmaster wagon body and put it on that frame. Then he would have gotten second and third overalls in a 2 door buick roadmaster!! Now that would have been something. I guess that wasn't very clear.. what makes a truck a truck? Is it the body style? Is it tuff suspension? Andrew M Onterrible 30ish Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2008 06:31PM by hudson. |
fiasco Andrew Steere Super Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
Well, back to the Toyota...
I used to have an 88 4Runner. Stripper model. 22RE, 5 speed, manual hubs. Zero to 60 in 17 seconds. Gutless. Narrow track and high center of gravity, so it was a bit tippy if you tried to drive it like a car. That didn't stop me from trying. I faded out the brakes on it trying to keep up with a WRX on one occasion in north central Pennsylvania a few years ago. With a diesel engine and bodywork that didn't rust if you looked at it wrong, it could make a decent service rig for a regional rally competitor. But to actually run it down stages at speed? Just to be silly, maybe somebody can build one of these for the stages: Andrew Steere Lyndeborough, NH KB1PJY |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
fiasco Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Well, back to the Toyota... > > I used to have an 88 4Runner. Stripper model. > 22RE, 5 speed, manual hubs. Zero to 60 in 17 > seconds. Gutless. > > Narrow track and high center of gravity, so it was > a bit tippy if you tried to drive it like a car. > That didn't stop me from trying. I faded out the > brakes on it trying to keep up with a WRX on one > occasion in north central Pennsylvania a few years > ago. But you're a feeeeeelthy Lib'ral Communist and should be exiled to Siberia, then you'd be a hero. See link on Rallyboy forum from the crazy guy in the far North, he has links to roads for 4 runner. http://rallyboy.proboards54.com/index.cgi > > With a diesel engine and bodywork that didn't rust > if you looked at it wrong, it could make a decent > service rig for a regional rally competitor. But > to actually run it down stages at speed? How do you splain Bill Holmes results? > > Just to be silly, maybe somebody can build one of > these for the stages: What's this shit! A fawkin Blue Spreza "Sproutwagon"? Spreza "Sproutwagen"?? We dun got no Sprezas We dun nid no stinkink Eampreza! > > Andrew Steere, 1973 > Lyndeborough, NH > KB1PJY John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
fiasco Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Narrow track and high center of gravity, so it was > a bit tippy if you tried to drive it like a car. I really didn't get around to realizing he actually wanted to build and drive a JACKED older toyota pickup track fast until about 10 mins ago. Good luck with that. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Vorpal_Rally Stinkfinger Lipschitz Mega Moderator Location: Uranus Join Date: 02/17/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 325 |
hudson Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Yes the roads matter. Has anyone tried adding > some serious ground clearance to their car and > seeing how it performed on roads that are truck > favorable? > > What are we calling a truck here? Trophy trucks > are tubular framed rwd vehicles... that happen to > have something that looks like a truck body. > > They could be called Trophy Station Wagons just as > easily.. although that lacks something. > > > > > Andrew McNally > Hamilton ON > 28 Andrew, I am with you one hunnert prrcent. TT's are tube framed PURPOSE BUILT vehicles that passingly resemble a truck. For their intended environment they are truly awesome, but on relatively narrow rally stage, I don't wanna be the guy hustling 500 hp down one. Back to the point of the thread, For all the right reasons, my first build will be a Volvo 240. Gp2 at first, but eventually Gp5. Had a XR4ti been available to me for a relatively low cost, that would would have weighed into my decision. I see the light, I'm applying to become a member of the choir. It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion. William Ralph Inge TANSTAAFL |