Homework

I'm thinking of doing a speech on rallying. The only requirements are that it be 8-10 minutes and informative.

What do you folks think should be mentioned?

I'm thinking of the early Monte rallies, the outlawed cars, the world popularity, etc...

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

How you get started in the sport too.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

You could talk about Colin McRae and how he on at least 3 occasions rolled cars catastrophically and to the entire worlds amazement got them back on the wheels and drove them to the finish line. How he's the latest rally legend and talk about his tragic death.

I dunno... not saying he's the be all and end all of rally champs but it's something some people in the class might be able to relate to or find more info about. May have played his video games...

Also I think Monte Carlo is a great idea to start out your speech with. A little background history on rally, how and why pace notes were developed and introduced, and so on.

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Michael LeCompte

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
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> You could talk about Colin McRae and how he on at
> least 3 occasions rolled cars catastrophically and
> to the entire worlds amazement got them back on
> the wheels and drove them to the finish line.

EVERYBODY has done that. I've Done that, nothing special about that at all.

How
> he's the latest rally legend and talk about his
> tragic death.

Showing off in a helicopter (there are witnesses and video camera which was thrown free in the crash) in deterioration weather, how the contempt he FAR TOO OFTEN showed for others cost the lives of 3 innocent people.
Yeah, a tragedy for sure, but specifically a stupid and pointless tragedy.
>
> I dunno... not saying he's the be all and end all
> of rally champs but it's something some people in
> the class might be able to relate to or find more
> info about. May have played his video games...


>
> Also I think Monte Carlo is a great idea to start
> out your speech with. A little background history
> on rally, how and why pace notes were developed
> and introduced, and so on.

Talk about how it all started with the big Swede in the little car who so excited the whole world that the whole format of the RAC was changed following his first competitive run down the "Special Test" called "Rest and be Thankful"
Cause that's where modern stage format rally statrted.

Talk about the domination since the mid 1960s of Finland, how one country's drivers have won 50% of all WRC rounds since the WRC was instituted.

Show short 10-15 second clips of Finland and Swedish rally.

Talk of the cultural differences between USA and the rest of the world where Americans need for adulation and "reinforcement" leads to the avoidance of any "sport' where victory is too uncertain, and a anomalous fixation and addiction to machinery, but crowing that so and so "Is a great driver" ignoring the selective nature of the sample when the cost of entry is well in excess of 100,000 dollars.
To demonstrate the anomalous nature of US rally, point out that at least 2/3 of all the cars are Subarus, where in for example Finland it is less than 5%.

Close with talking about the grassroots movements leading to the idea of US version of GroupF, how it grew out of the original Gp2, morphed into "Formula 2000" and how that was revised into Group222, and then that became GpF and how that led to Max-Attack.
Close with the positive, how Max Attack inspired the 2wd Prize funds as ordinary guys realised the utter irrelevance of the million dollar efforts to beat club guys in garage built cars, how THEY could get going in a 2wd car.
Leave links to GpF videos

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Talk about how it all started with the big Swede
> in the little car who so excited the whole world
> that the whole format of the RAC was changed
> following his first competitive run down the
> "Special Test" called "Rest and be Thankful"
> Cause that's where modern stage format rally
> statrted.

I'm interested in this piece of history. Please expand. What year? What was the previous format? And following format? Who was it?



Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > Talk about how it all started with the big
> Swede
> > in the little car who so excited the whole
> world
> > that the whole format of the RAC was changed
> > following his first competitive run down the
> > "Special Test" called "Rest and be Thankful"
> > Cause that's where modern stage format rally
> > statrted.
>
> I'm interested in this piece of history. Please
> expand. What year? What was the previous format?
> And following format? Who was it?

Here's a bit from http://www.ukmotorsport.com/networkq/1997/history.html
The first RAC Rally used a format broadly similar to that of the then better-known Monte Carlo event, with starting points around the country and competitors converging on a common finish. The route covered 1,000 miles and there were 367 entries, with many stars from the Brooklands era involved. The Rally was held in March 1932; at the end of the five-day competition, 259 cars arrived in Torquay without penalty. Although there were no overnight halts, the required average speeds were low (25mph) and the results were decided by three tests on Torquay promenade. The deciding test involved driving 100 yards as slowly as possible!

Throughout the 1930s, the basic formula remained the same. as early as 1934, there was remarkable support from manufacturers, with 15 different companies giving official backing: AC, Armstrong Siddeley, Aston Martin, Alvis, Citroen, Ford, Riley, Rover, Singer, SS, Standard, Sunbeam, Lagonda and Marandaz.

The outbreak of war in 1939 signalled the end of the Rally until 1951, when the first ever RAC International Rally of Great Britain was held. Run in June, there were four start points with the finish in Bournemouth, and tests at various places along the route. These included such varied courses as the Rest and Be Thankful hillclimb in Scotland and driving tests on the sea front at Brighton.

With rallies in Europe (such as the Alpine and the gruelling Liege-based marathons) becoming far tougher, the 1952 RAC Rally was moved back to March in search of worse weather. Subsequent years saw the introduction of difficult navigation sections, notably through Wales, but these proved almost impossible for overseas crews. What was needed was a formula combining challenge with straightforward navigation...

In 1959, therefore, Jack Kemsley was asked to organise the event. He moved the date to November and devised a long route from Blackpool, through northern Scotland and Wales, to finish at Crystal Palace racing circuit in London. This attracted 16 overseas entries, as well as six factory cars from Ford and eight (including one of the new Mini-Minors) from BMC.

In 1960, more major changes were made. The 2,000-mile route started in Blackpool, finished at Brands Hatch, and omitted Wales. Most important was the inclusion of three timed sections on private forest tracks, where Erik Carisson proved dominant, although co-driver Stuart Turner later admitted that they had made a pre-event recce!

Along with the introduction of a modern road book, the format was such a success that the 1961 Rally would be won and lost entirely on Forestry Commission special stages. Over 200 miles of these gravel roads were used, with cars heading north into Scotland before the finish at Brighton. Names like Kielder, Kershope, Dovey and Staindale appeared for the first time.

The Rally never looked back after that. The format today is basically unchanged, apart from the introduction of pre-event reconnaissance, first on the spectator stages and later (since 1990) on all the special stages. Also unchanged is the general domination by Scandinavian drivers. Only Britain's Roger Clark (twice), Carlos Sainz (once) and Colin McRae (twice) have managed to beat the Finns and Swedes since the event took to the forests.""


Rest and Be thankful was about 2. sumpin miles, Eric Carlsson in the little Saab (which had a mighty 850cc engine built and tuned by a good friend of mine) and the British went apeshit to see Carlsson put the whooop on the whole world's factory entries.
As you see, the FOLLOWING YEAR, there was 200 miles of "special tests".
>
>
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I would start with searching wikipedia for rallying and expand. Good history there. Add some classic WRC footage. Watching the masters in action beats any speech. Leave out TSD. You don't want to inspire any more freaks :-)

Oh yeah, thanks Mr. John Super-Buzzkill Vanlandingham for dumping on my dead hero, Colin! I don't care if he let his chopper license lapse, was showing off in deteriorating weather and had drunk a few pints, I still think that in his day, he was the MAN! Christ, when was he NOT showing off. Jeez!

Hold my beer and watch THIS!

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > Talk about how it all started with the big
> Swede
> > in the little car who so excited the whole
> world
> > that the whole format of the RAC was changed
> > following his first competitive run down the
> > "Special Test" called "Rest and be Thankful"
> > Cause that's where modern stage format rally
> > statrted.
>
> I'm interested in this piece of history. Please
> expand. What year? What was the previous format?
> And following format? Who was it?
>
>
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0


Don't encourage him. He's bad enough when people tell him to stop.

but seriously I am interested to.

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Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would start with searching wikipedia for
> rallying and expand. Good history there. Add
> some classic WRC footage. Watching the masters in
> action beats any speech. Leave out TSD. You
> don't want to inspire any more freaks :-)
>
> Oh yeah, thanks Mr. John Super-Buzzkill
> Vanlandingham for dumping on my dead hero, Colin!
> I don't care if he let his chopper license lapse,
> was showing off in deteriorating weather and had
> drunk a few pints, I still think that in his day,
> he was the MAN! Christ, when was he NOT showing
> off. Jeez!

Ted there's no doubting that he was a superb driver but just cause he died so horribly (and killed his son, and a neighbor and another child in what is clearly beginning to look like a case of aerobatics gone terribly wrong) doesn't mean we can't say anything about how Colin the driver displayed a side of himself AT EVENTS ON CAMERA which I find completely off-putting.
He was clearly spoiled, and to hear a 21 year old using the words "Obviously....." so many times in so many contexts shows he thought he knew more than whoever he was talking to. And his well know, and well documented penchant for lashing out at his co-drivers, and bullshit like leaving them by the car and taking the helicopter out of the stage----after he's crashed the car to ratshit, that shows a person I don't think I'd like to hang out with.(No comments from him when he's crashed the car, but snide and insulting comments towards the co-driver, the engineers, mechanics etc when something happens)
The proof in the pudding is that NO TEAM would hire him, and that says something.

Sure he was daring, but plenty of people went exactly as fast down to the .001%,
but they showed a broader range of emotions, and seemed "more human".
I present any of the dozens of Finns at the WRC level since forever with their self-deprecating humor, and even in frustrating times, fairly good humor.

It really doesn't matter in the end if he was showboating, dead is dead.

Just a few weeks ago I got a email from a Volvo owner in Slovenija who had read a post in Turbobricks Off Topics where I mention by name a friend I had visited and spent some time with. He mentioned that my friend had died when the old Antonov Annushka AN2 he was flying crashed into a mountainside in bad weather.
Makes no difference. Dead is dead. How strange tho that even after 27 years I as mentioning him, and celebrating my dughters 3 year birthday, my daughter named Anna but affectionately called "Annoushka", he's flying an aircraft of the same name and crashes. (His passenger was injured but survived.)

Ted, I have known personally lots of World Champions in my old sport, and LOTS of top 10 guys in World Championship Moto-cross. Nearly all were humans you'd mostly enjoy being around.
Car world seem to have more than its share of prats.



>
> Hold my beer and watch THIS!
>
>
>
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Hey, I know this is a thread jack, I know that John has every right to express his opinions and I respect them, and that Colin probably was a huge spoiled brat but:

He was the youngest ever World Champion,in 1995,in a Sub-a-rat!

He was arguably the most highly paid rally driver ever and had factory rides with Subaru, Ford and Citroen. I don't count Skoda.

He won 20 something WRC events.

He crashed-out less than Tommy Makinen who managed 4 World Chamionships.

None of his crashes were ever his fault.

He wore a kilt. That takes balls!

I rest my case.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Back to the speech, be the guy that's different. You know they're all going to be up there basically reading their outlines. You should be different. You should tell a chilling tale about Group B. Don't just get up there and prattle on and on about the facts, but present the facts in a clever manner. Come as close to telling a ghost story as you can without turning the speech into a true narrative.

Come from the position that the Grp B cars were monsters, created in the laboratories of mad scientists with a singular purpose - to devour rally stages. The whole shebang lasted barely four years. "In 1982, the FIA opened the Pandora's Box of the motorsports world, unleashing the evil that was Group B on the roads of the world. With generous homologation requirements and no restrictions on boost, engineers in the most top secret of labs began to build the monsters that would terrorize the rally community."

Start with the introduction of Grp B in 1982, some brief details about how it was different from the other classes (focus on how sinister Grp B was compared to a couple others), then detail some of the power and acceleration figures of cars like the Quattro, Delta, and RS200 before telling the harrowing tale of those who lost their lives to such monsters. "Once you hear a Grp B car coming, it's too late." Beasts almost too wicked to tame, although the greatest of drivers (share some names - pronounce them correctly) certainly came close. Although these legends of motorsport came close, too much slack on the leash spelled disaster.

Continue with a good sized list of deaths - competitors and spectators - and be sure to honor their deaths through colorful descriptions of the moment of impact. Drivers perched upon the very edge who lost it. Spectators too close for their own good. These are the heroes of rally. Living their lives at the limit. Those who got too close paid the ultimate price and, in the end, just four years later, the FIA banished the Grp B monsters to the farthest corners of the world, never to compete in the WRC again.

Close with a warning. Much like that guy with the hook for a hand in the forest, these cars were not destroyed and some still find their way to events. When they show up, advise your audience to make a point of getting as close as they can to these creations while they are stationary. Assure them that they will feel the hair on the back of their necks stand at attention when something wicked this way comes.

Be very serious about it. Expose them to these monsters of rally. Inform them of why they are, indeed, monsters. Tell the harrowing tale of death and dismemberment. Warn them that these monsters are real and still walk among us. Driven by legends.

That should do the trick.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

But do mention that the GpB cars averaged only 3.2mph faster on stages than the same great drivers drove their Gp4 Escorts, Ascona and Manta 400s and Fiat 131 Super Mirafiores, etc.

Those guys were flat quick even in old rwd stuff.

And well built versions of the old stuff still to this very day can make stage times in the top 10 on events where both modern and old school run together.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Thank you gents! I'll let you know how it goes on Monday.

-Kirk

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

Brian: Best rally post on this board this year! Good work!

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian: Best rally post on this board this year!
> Good work!
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0


/me takes a bow

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest