Rally School Curriculum

To try and add to the pool of rallyists in the west, I am considering starting a year round rally school on our property out here in CA. We have 6+ miles of 20' wide dirt roads all graded and ready to go. I've been in contact with both NASA Rally Sport and Rally America to find out if they have any requirements for approval for their sanctioning bodies because in their rules (RA's anyway) they mention an approved school, and list Team O'neil as an example. These schools once attended can add up to 4 coefficient points to a drivers experience level. Long story short, I am interested in developing a training curriculem for a rally school and am asking for input toward that end. What should be included or excluded? How much time, how many miles of driving? That sort of thing. I'll also need to find instructors, what qualifications should they have?

Thanks,
Mark Bullock
Plan B Racing

I'd be happy to talk about the NCO contents we use for NRS events on the east coast, give me a call some time.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Mark, have you talked to the Gibeaults?

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Yes I've spoken to Paula. Also, I sent you a PM.

Talk to Paul Ekland he does a nice job. I have also taught for him from time to time.

I think there is a lot of room to talk about the written side of it too such as risk and what to do about it.

Best ways to crash and not die.
What to do when a tire falls off
how not to get distracted by silly gauges like oil pressure mid turn...

Derek

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In the long run reality always wins.

Hey Mark, I don't know if I can help you with your actual 'curriculum' here's some input from a potential student, and what I'm looking for in a real rally school...

obviously the #1 school that comes to mind is Tim O'Neils. Going out to NH is no big deal for me as I grew up in VT and my parents still live there, however, $4000 for 4 days is a lot. Plus airfare, hotel, incidentals...easily $5K.

I don't know all the details, but I thought I read somewhere that 4 days at TO's will get your your RA rally license....yes? No? That's 18 coefficients, yes?

There's a rally school in the UK for ~$600/day. so for $5K I could fly over there, rally for 2-3 days on European back roads, and have money left over for a small vacation in Ireland. (I'm Irish, never been).

And to pre-empt what I know JVL is thinking, yes, I know I can buy someone's rally prepped GTI or Rabbit for $5K with lots of extras and have $$ left over for a real rally. I've considered that (and everytime I see a used rally car for sale in that price range, I consider it more.) But I feel like I need some more instruction around fine tuning my driving, I know my style needs to change for higher speeds, and I don't want to figure that out on the fly (literally). I have the $$ and I'm willing to spend it...lets just leave it at that...


NOW....would I prefer something cheaper and closer to home? Of course, which is why I'm anxiously waiting to see what you come up with. Here are my requirements:

NASA/RA Coeffiecients. this is the big thing, the experience needs to be tracked and accepted by both sanctioning bodies. I will need a waiver from NASA for my first stage rally and this will go a long way in getting that waiver.

Instruction: I'm not looking for just practice laps...I need practice laps with lots of 'tweeking', 'best practices', and 'you should do it this way because....'

No cones: One big thing that makes me hesitate about the O'Neil school is they spend the first day driving around cones. I don't need to spend $1,000 for a day to do that....I've driven around enough cones already. I know the basic techniques of LFB, scandinavian flick, etc....I need experience using those techniques in 3rd and 4th gear. No more 1st and 2nd gear, this is big-boy time now.

Now, one big PLUS to O'Neils school is they supply their own cars....and if you roll it, they pull up in a different one and you keep on going. Obviously this is where a lot of the cost is coming from. I assume you won't have that option, so I assume your pricing will reflect that.



So, if you had an 'advanced' curriculum, drive your own car....lots of seat time and lots of 'real-time' in-car instruction that gave me NASA/RA coefficients, and was significanly cheaper than $1K/day.....that's worth staying local and supporting your school Mark!

I hope that helps!

Jon

OH....and for some background, I've been to Paul Eklund's school and i've been to the CRS Rallyschool (twice). They're both good, but they're both fairly 'beginner' in the sense that you're still driving around cones, learning the basics, and never getting out of 2nd gear.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2008 02:46PM by Jon Burke.

Go to Forest Experience in the UK. Seat time, closeness, coefficients, etc. don't matter when you think of the quality of instruction. You can do one at Ridgecrest as well, like you said, you have the money. But go to the UK first for the real deal. Give a few days there first with a rental car to get somewhat accustomed to driving on the wrong side.

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Grant Hughes

I don't think the 18 coefficient points is correct. In RA Rules they only allow 4 coef. for attending Team O'neil's school. Also, the the Team O'neil site, there is a 6 hr. lis. seminar that when taken in conjunction with the 4 day rally school applies 4 coef. toward RA's competition lis.

From the Team O'neil website:

"This is a 6 hour lecture-based seminar that is offered with 4 day rally classes, if scheduled in advance. When combined with a 4 day rally school, this class meets the requirements toward 4 coefficients for both the Rally America novice and provisional licenses"

Jon Burke Wrote:
> NASA/RA Coeffiecients. this is the big thing, the
> experience needs to be tracked and accepted by
> both sanctioning bodies. I will need a waiver
> from NASA for my first stage rally and this will
> go a long way in getting that waiver.

You'll need a waiver? For a NRS event? What on earth for?

?

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> NASA/RA Coeffiecients. this is the big thing, the
> experience needs to be tracked and accepted by
> both sanctioning bodies. I will need a waiver
> from NASA for my first stage rally and this will
> go a long way in getting that waiver.
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW

Hey Jon,

No sure what waiver you are talking about, either for RA or NRS. If you are under 18 years of age, you need a minor waiver, but that's signed by your parents or guardian(s). That has nothing to do with schools, etc. NRS has no other waiver that I know of; NRS does not restrict you in starting in any given class of car.
RA coefficients are about whether or not you can use stage notes, or drive AWD/turbo cars. RA has given waivers for starting in AWD/turbo class cars, or to start with smaller restrictors, but I can't think of any waiver you need. RA has said in the past that they will count NRS events for coeficients.
Keeping records of coefficients for RA events may be done by them (I don't know if they do or not) but I would think you need to keep copies of results sheets yourself for NRS to show to RA officials for counting NRS coefficients. I would ask that question on the RA forum site.

Regards,
Mark B.

huh, I was told a rookie starting in a AWD car would need a waiver, even for NASA events? Maybe it was AWD open class? (which is what the car will be, I shoulda specified) I'm not worried about running any RA events for a while.

If that's not the case, great....one less thing to worry about next year. Either way, I'll still be running my ECU very de-tuned in my first few events.



you know, i think the 18 coefficients was for running notes as a rookie...your co-driver needs to have 18 coeff. that's what I was thinking.

I guess I'll put in an email to a nasa official or someone for a final word on that.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> huh, I was told a rookie starting in a AWD car
> would need a waiver, even for NASA events? Maybe
> it was AWD open class? (which is what the car will
> be, I shoulda specified) I'm not worried about
> running any RA events for a while.

Now you got it.
See Rally America Inc owner Doug Havir started out witha turbo 4wd, did a few events then bought a Pro-drive USA ultimate spec Sub-a-rat and went out and flipped it a silly number of times right off the bat. Rally Ameica CEO JB Niday did a couple or 3 events with a Golf then did the Subie thing and had some fun too, so they decided that nobody else should do what they did, so they cooked up this rule but it only applies to Rally America Inc events.
Of course if your rich enough or famous enough you can be exempted.
You're probably rich enough.
>
> If that's not the case, great....one less thing to
> worry about next year. Either way, I'll still be
> running my ECU very de-tuned in my first few
> events.

Don't worry where the ECU is set, worry where the throtle is.

And how you brake.
>
>
>
> you know, i think the 18 coefficients was for
> running notes as a rookie...your co-driver needs
> to have 18 coeff. that's what I was thinking.
>
> I guess I'll put in an email to a nasa official or
> someone for a final word on that.
>
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> RallyX Team Up TwoMountains
> Team Blog:
>
> Sponsors:
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> www.finelineimports.com |
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> | www.redlineoil.com

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

thx John. I knew there was a story behind that, just wasn't sure what it was.

the ecu is for my own edification. My goal next year is to simply 'finish' a few CRS rallies...but I know myself, and I know I'll start getting competitive no matter what. So the ecu is really just an ego check. haha

and I'm definitely not 'rich', its more that I'm not married and don't have kids

also, I bought this car used off ebay with only 3K miles but a salvage title, I got a crazy deal on it and its done pretty well for me, but I'll never be able to get what its worth if I were to sell it used cause of the title. so next year I'll be over 100K miles, and in goes a cage.

The rally school stuff is just to help me NOT make rookie mistakes and stuff it on the first corner!

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> huh, I was told a rookie starting in a AWD car
> would need a waiver, even for NASA events? Maybe
> it was AWD open class?

Rookies are allowed to run AWD (stock or open class) in NRS.


> you know, i think the 18 coefficients was for
> running notes as a rookie...your co-driver needs
> to have 18 coeff. that's what I was thinking.

Rookies are allowed to use stage notes in NRS. I even hand out a booklet with lots of suggestions/info about them at the Novice Competitor Orientation.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
hinking.
>
> Rookies are allowed to use stage notes in NRS. I
> even hand out a booklet with lots of
> suggestions/info about them at the Novice
> Competitor Orientation.

You, YOU YOU!!!!! That's what you are!!!!!

You're just trying to make them look like hypocrites having a rule them ignoring it if somebody has some name doing stunts!

Bad Anders! 8)
>
> Cheers,
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.