Is this the downfall of RA?

2 weeks away and less than 20 (+add big blue, rockstar etc...) entries, can the New England Forest Rally which had 80+ fields a few years back survive?
No question RA killed the 2wd fields, (if you dont believe me take a look at the entry lists for the last few RA events) is the 1000+ entry fees also hurting some of the AWD guys? Or is it just a matter of fuel prices being so high and a crappy economy?

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

entries are struggling everywhere. But yeah, it doesn't look good when you're big nationals are dwarfed by more regional-geared NASA events..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2008 07:59PM by Eddie Fiorelli.

Tanner Foust isnt going to be there because I think hes doing some drifting event instead. Last year and in 05 NEFR only had 38 entries, in 06 they had 51. I bet at least a couple of the top guys that have qualified for X-games are going to sit NEFR out to save some money and the car.

The best 2wd field so far was at Orgeon, 24 or 25 2wd cars. All but one entered Max Attack.

I wonder how the rest of the RA season will go with the X-games rush over with.

Oh well, with no rally in X-games next year we can have steady low-entry fields all year long!

Carl S Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Oh well, with no rally in X-games next year we can
> have steady low-entry fields all year long!

No "Rally-Racing" in Ex games?

Did the spectacle of cars driving in a parking lot and over carefully manufactured jumps already pale?

Did the target demographic of 10-14 year old boys attention drift off to something NEW! and BIGGER and MORE EXCITING!!!!!!!!!?

Can this loss of the Jewel In the Crown, the loss of a chance for the only reason to do ANYTHING in LIFE in other words TV EXPOSURE be looked at as another sad tale of over-hypping of rally to people who really measure viewership?

How will we all survive without the X games?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Its time someone introduces drifting to x-games. Its at least based on same basic principals.

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

If you are going to claim that RA is killing 2wd based on the number of entrants or the downfall of RA is imminent based on falling numbers of entrants or national entries drastically drop off after X Games (more than they did at the end of the season before X Games), you should quote numbers to back that up.

Here are the actual numbers of national entrants:

2004 national entrants (last year of SCCA)
SnoDrift 35 cars, 10 2wd
Oregon 27 cars, 5 2wd
STPR 35 cars, 4 2wd
Maine Forest 45 cars, 9 2wd
Ojibwe 28 cars, 6 2wd
Colorado 22 cars, 5 2wd
LSPR 29 cars, 5 2wd

2005 national entrants (first year of Rally America)
SnoDrift 25 cars, 7 2wd
Oregon 30 cars, 5 2wd
STPR 36 cars, 4 2wd
Maine Forest 34 cars, 6 2wd
Ojibwe 24 cars, 4 2wd
Colorado 18 cars, 2 2wd
LSPR 31 cars, 5 2wd

2006 national entrants (first year of X Games)
SnoDrift 26 cars, 6 2wd
100AW 31 cars, 11 2wd
Oregon 25 cars, 7 2wd
STPR 45 cars, 12 2wd
Maine Forest 40 cars, 8 2wd
Ojibwe 24 cars, 7 2wd
Colorado 16 cars, 4 2wd
LSPR 25 cars, 7 2wd

2007 national entrants
SnoDrift 35 cars, 7 2wd
100AW 35 cars, 6 2wd
Oregon 45 cars, 15 2wd
Olympus 33 cars, 10 2wd
STPR 37 cars, 10 2wd
NEFR 30 cars, 7 2wd
Ojibwe 24 cars, 6 2wd
Colorado 26 cars, 8 2wd
LSPR 37 cars, 15 2wd

2008 national entrants
SnoDrift 31 cars, 4 2wd
100aw 31 cars, 5 2wd
Olympus 29 cars, 6 2wd
Oregon 33 cars, 10 2wd
STPR 25 cars, 4 2wd

I don't see any of the claimed trends.

alan




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2008 02:05AM by tipo158.

Alan,

You musn't let actual facts interfere with the conspiracy theories on this forum...bad Alan.

heymagic Wrote:
> You musn't let actual facts interfere with the
> conspiracy theories on this forum...bad Alan.

Well, actually, between last year and this year there has been a drop-off in entrants for Oregon and STPR.

It could be something that RA had control over (H&N restraint requirements) or it could be something outside of their control (huge run-ups in the price of diesel fuel, the delay in finalizing the details for Oregon, etc.).

alan

Excellent research Alan. Do you happen to have the total numbers (national plus regional) available too? I'd guess more 2wd info would be in the regional entries.

Cheers,
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Could it not be that many teams are waiting to see if they survive Baie?

Sounds like there are 12+ US crews at Baie, I'd wager some of those crews will enter NEFR assuming the car survives...

JVLslittlebuddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could it not be that many teams are waiting to see
> if they survive Baie?
>
> Sounds like there are 12+ US crews at Baie, I'd
> wager some of those crews will enter NEFR assuming
> the car survives...

The old early/late entry fee thing gets in the way of many events. I've heard of a couple competitors having to wait more than a month or two, to get refunds over the years ( not from NEFR ). Combine to high fuel prices, the daily bad recession news, the timing of the events and the way eastern location of NEFR it wouldn't be surprising to see entries down.

Likely isn't the downfall of RA, might be trouble for NEFR though.

A quick look at 03 STPR entry list there were 90 total entries and a waiting list 29 of em 2wd and in 02 something like 23 2wd that started. The last year of SCCA which Regional rallies were suspended is obviously not going to have many 2wd entries. Once RA took over the number of 2wd entries dropped drastically. A lot of teams are well aware that marketing for 2wd is not done or is secondary. Its just not a matter of the lack of 2wd but the ideaology RA has created; You need to rally AWD Turbo to be succesful. Thats the perception most people/fans have these days. When I tell people/friends I rally an 87 Golf they think I am BSing. They think Rallying can only be done in a blue subaru. When they see my car, they tell me I need something new, something like a Subaru!

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

turoc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A quick look at 03 STPR entry list there were 90
> total entries and a waiting list 29 of em 2wd and
> in 02 something like 23 2wd that started. The last
> year of SCCA which Regional rallies were suspended
> is obviously not going to have many 2wd entries.
> Once RA took over the number of 2wd entries
> dropped drastically. A lot of teams are well aware
> that marketing for 2wd is not done or is
> secondary. Its just not a matter of the lack of
> 2wd but the ideaology RA has created; You need to
> rally AWD Turbo to be succesful. Thats the
> perception most people/fans have these days. When
> I tell people/friends I rally an 87 Golf they
> think I am BSing. They think Rallying can only be
> done in a blue subaru. When they see my car, they
> tell me I need something new, something like a
> Subaru!

Gene, I have to add at Doo-wops this year waiting to go in to the second running of the Saturady stages with the 2 2wd candidates I drug down to watch we were chit chatting with some early 20s kid with a pimpularized Golf describing his pimped out Audi.
Now NOTE WELL that this kid is modding his cars, has found enough info to hear about Doo-Wops AND to drive there.
When I asked why if he had the Audi as his main pimpin ride why he didn't have a cage in the Golf and wasn't entered the kid answered and you can ask Hawkinson and Sean Tennis standing there "Whaddya mean enter? Its a Golf ya know? Front wheel drive...."
When I pointed out there were not just gobs of Golves but a good ration of Rabbits the kid was gob-smacked saying "wha Wha what? They're FRONT WHEEL DRIVE and they CAN ENTER???"

Gene, I ain't fawkin bitchin about things RA or whatever. I am pointing out there IS A STRANGE PERCEPTION even in fair motivated speccies.

Promo promo promo all you want but what do you tell a potential newb when he asks "But how does a fresh out of high school kid like Sarasin pay for the entries much less a competitive Subaru?"

What do you tell them?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Promo promo promo all you want but what do you
> tell a potential newb when he asks "But how does
> a fresh out of high school kid like Sarasin pay
> for the entries much less a competitive Subaru?"
>
> What do you tell them?
>
you could tell them that he and his dad sacrificed a lot to drive his ass off in old eclipses and non turbo subarus for a season or two and then drove a turbo focus for a season and won the himes cup and got attention from people to get help running the subaru. i dont know all the details but he has worked hard to get where he is.

the thing that bugs me is that i think there is more coverage online about the 2wd cars than ever before. they get covered in the press releases and updates. sure the results arent the easiest format to follow but if you dig around you can find them.

but as you say promo all you want but it doesnt matter if people dont care.

it seems like youg new people get hooked by the super awd monsters and then mature and learn to love the old rwd beasts. i know that is what happened to me. i got hooked in the late 90s by the libra hyundais and the sprongl audi racing in northern MN. but i was also excited to see that anything could be a rally car. like utecth's omni or kemp's old audi and espcially the flurry of golfs and the screaming rx-7s.

now i think i would be more excited to see some old RWD cars than anything else.

There is not a significant trend in the number of national entrants. But there is a statistically significant downward trend in the number of regional entrants in the past four years. (p-value = 0.0004)

---

Grant Hughes