Is this the downfall of RA?

Carl S Wrote:
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> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > In my opinion, RA (well, the PR firms RA has
> > hired) has been fairly unsuccessful in promoting
> > rally's image to the general population. The only
> > success has been X Games.
> >
>
> Funny you should say that. Cause it was WMG that
> gave RA the boot from the X Games for 09 after WMG
> was put in charge of x games stuff for 2009. At
> least thats what I heard was said at the super
> secret x games "perspectives" meeting at oregon.
>
> Dun dun dun!!!

That isn't quite the same rumor that I heard, so your leak source seems to have heard things differently from my leak.

When RA let WMG go, I can't imagine that, given WMGs involvement with XGames, there was an expectation that RA's involvement with XGames would last. Just a guess.

alan

Gene-check your meds

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

I don't think RA is actively killing 2wd although they don't seem at all interested in promoting a 2wd National Championship.

The top 3 in RA Southwest are indeed 2wd but mainly because in CRS we saw a large drop in 4wd entrants starting last year and almost none of the fast 4wd cars are back this year with the exception of 3 cars at Seed 9.

I'm curious if SCCA National Road Racing is seeing a similar decline.

Tom Smith

Erik Christiansen Wrote:
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> I'm so confused. RA is killing 2wd? Isn't RA the
> sanctioning body that forces new drivers to 2wd
> (G2 or P) only?
>
> I really don't think there's any anti-2wd
> conspriracy. I've never seen any evidence that
> either RA or NASA takes measures to reduce the
> number of 2wd entries (either actively or as some
> sort of unintended consequence).
>
> In fact, 2wd seems quite healthy among RA regional
> rallies out here in the Southwest. Take a look at
> the top three OVERALL drivers in RA's Southwest
> region:
>
> 1. Michel Hoche-Mong: VW Golf
> 2. Eddie Fiorelli: VW Golf
> 3. Chrissie Beavis: VW Jetta
>
>

typerr Wrote:
> I don't think RA is actively killing 2wd although
> they don't seem at all interested in promoting a
> 2wd National Championship.

If the cars were there, they would promote it. Or maybe chicken and egg more precisely sums up the situation. If the entrants don't come until RA promotes to the same level as the Overall (effectively AWD) Championship and RA doesn't promote National 2wd as much as Overall because the competition isn't there.

The RA 2WD National Championship is pretty good this year. After five events, the top three cars are separated by a point from the next car up. However, they haven't been running all of the events, so there isn't the head-to-head action to play up in the event PR.

Most of the National Overall Top 10 have run every event this year. There is more to promote there.

The real problem with a 2wd National Championship is that Andrew Havas would just swoop in and win it ...

alan

tipo158 Wrote:
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>
> The real problem with a 2wd National Championship
> is that Andrew Havas would just swoop in and win
> it ...
>
> alan
>

If he entered, if he finished, etc.

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

As far as a natioanl 2wd program becoming much more than it is I suspect there are a coulpe of hinderances...money being the major. I'd guess that someone with the funds to travel cross country to compete at all events may well have the funds to buy a competitive AWD car and program. The lack of current RWD suitable platforms and manufacture support may be contributing factors.

I believe that RA sanction/insurance fees are no higher now than SCCA was in 2004. Event fees have risen, but RA hasn't any control over those. Besides the recession,fuel, economy issues we're dealing with the national elections which always seem to screw up everything.

As far as 2wd or regional promotion I don't see NRS doing anymore that RA. Nothing was mentioned much about DooWops after the fact last year, nor any other NRS events. I suspect if by some miracle 2wd became wildly popular tomorrow, then the big money guys would follow and the people not getting attention now , would not be getting attention then either.

RA could definitely write some 2wd only press releases and at least put better info out there. I don't think that would be of a significant cost, don't know though. I'd guess the big noise would still follow the AWD front runners. The only people who don't really get excited about them are the rest of the pack.

NEFR entry is up to 21 today.

Last day for "early" entry is 7/3. Check the list 7/4. That will give a truer indication, I think.

I did hear that the Irish are POed and are boycotting NEFR. Well, except for the Burkes. I don't know why.

I also heard that the STPR organizors were giving breathalizer tests to codrivers. I don't get that at all. Who would get into a codriver's seat sober?

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

typerr Wrote:
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> > I'm curious if SCCA National Road Racing is seeing
> a similar decline.
>
> Tom Smith
>
> In a word yes. Most smaller Nationals ( and Regionals) are down about 20% from last year. At least that's the trend in Great Lakes Divison/ Cen-Div. I'd didn't check the entry for the Sprints but the Sprints are still the Sprints. Tye local vintage group (VSCDA) is similarly down.
I'm working a PCA race this weekend. I'll see if they are down as were. My local racetrack,which incorporates a motocross track in the facility, has seen declines across the board. Motocross, Road racing bikes,karts and car club track days. They say 10-20% overall.
> >
> >
>
>
>

---

Bruce Beauvais
Too many SAABs to count

Rallye-BDC entries were way up compared to the last 2 years.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

tedm Wrote:
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> Rallye-BDC entries were way up compared to the
> last 2 years.

When things suck here. Run to Canada!

CKA,eh?

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Somewhat related...kinda sorta, if you squint ...on TV this weekend, loaf of generic white bread in Hawaii $5.50, peanut better was something over $8.00 a jar due to fuel/transportation costs. This will trickle down and permeate all our lives to some degree. We're working on the schedule and route for DooWops to try and save fuel costs for competitors and volunteers. We likely won't see any California cars make the trek up.

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the cars were there, they would promote it. Or
> maybe chicken and egg more precisely sums up the
> situation. If the entrants don't come until RA
> promotes to the same level as the Overall
> (effectively AWD) Championship and RA doesn't
> promote National 2wd as much as Overall because
> the competition isn't there.


Well, actually, on one hand RA will promote whatever they're
given. Those news stories on the RA front page? Some of
those written by the RA staff, but often they're team
press releases.

On the other hand, RA isn't going to go out of their way to
promote something that isn't there. Their 2WD coverage of
STPR sucked, for instance. But why wouldn't it? There were
only about 6 2WD cars entered in the Nationals, and most of
those were complete unknowns.

Next, there's no impetus for anyone with money to
both stay in 2WD and go on the National tour. If you've
got money, the trend is to go to AWD. If you don't, you stay 2WD
and generally stay regional. There're occasionally exceptions
to this, but even then most of the exceptions are only in
2WD for a year or two "to get their feet wet". So the 2WD
field constantly changes from year to year, and there's
no momentum.

> The RA 2WD National Championship is pretty good
> this year. After five events, the top three cars
> are separated by a point from the next car up.
> However, they haven't been running all of the
> events, so there isn't the head-to-head action to
> play up in the event PR.

No, the RA 2WD National Championship sucks this year.
And it does about every other year. Last year there
was some excitement when Kyle and Cary went at it (and
then Kyle's budget won out), and some between Duplessis
and me (but not very much). RA and the press only
really started noticing it around the time of Ojibwe.

There's no real competition in G5. Pretty much the only
person who's trying in that class is John Conley. Chris
is pretty much just screwing around this year, running
whatever he can get.

There's no real competition in G2. I'm going to try to
talk Lou into going to CO, but so far it's pretty much
guys just winning their local events and not making an
effort to travel.

Now, Production looks interesting. Jan and Jody have
come a long way, and Jim usually makes it to a few events,
so we might see a bit of a race there. But even so, there're
only two cars in the entire class!


> Most of the National Overall Top 10 have run every
> event this year. There is more to promote there.

Most of the National Overall Top 10 have the money to
run every event this year.

> The real problem with a 2wd National Championship
> is that Andrew Havas would just swoop in and win
> it ...

Uh. We have a 2WD National Championship. I presume you
mean one with enough coverage to power decent sponsorship
deals. If that were the case, it could be Andrew...

Or Chris Duplessis. Or George Doganis. Or Tom Burress.
Or Cary Kendall. Or Josh Wimpey. Or...

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

heymagic Wrote:
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> We likely won't see
> any California cars make the trek up.


Oh, I dunno about that. Unlike the PNW, the CA teams
seem to be willing to travel more than 30 miles out of
their home state to rally. Look at Rally Idaho, for instance.
There're more than twice as many CA teams as OR/WA teams,
and gas isn't exactly cheap right now.

The only real reason SW support of DooWops has dropped in
the past couple of years is scheduling conflicts, I think.
The 3-way collision between DooWops, Seed9, and 100AW has
hurt things. A schedule change would definitely help.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

hoche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > If the cars were there, they would promote it. Or
> > maybe chicken and egg more precisely sums up the
> > situation. If the entrants don't come until RA
> > promotes to the same level as the Overall
> > (effectively AWD) Championship and RA doesn't
> > promote National 2wd as much as Overall because
> > the competition isn't there.
>
> Well, actually, on one hand RA will promote whatever they're
> given. Those news stories on the RA front page? Some of
> those written by the RA staff, but often they're team
> press releases.

When I talk about promoting a championship, I am talking about the RA- or event-written, pre- and post-event PRs (like I would have written for Olympus if
I had not been in a pissing match with WMG).

> Next, there's no impetus for anyone with money to both stay
> in 2WD and go on the National tour. If you've got money, the
> trend is to go to AWD. If you don't, you stay 2WD and
> generally stay regional. There're occasionally exceptions
> to this, but even then most of the exceptions are only in
> 2WD for a year or two "to get their feet wet". So the 2WD
> field constantly changes from year to year, and there's
> no momentum.

Like I said. Chicken and egg. If there were three 2WD that were having tight head-to-head competition at every national, I am sure RA would want to play that up. I would write the PRs if no one else would.

But there isn't, so RA isn't covering it and that leads competitors to think that RA would not cover it and that leads to RA not covering it.

> > The RA 2WD National Championship is pretty good
> > this year. After five events, the top three cars
> > are separated by a point from the next car up.
> > However, they haven't been running all of the
> > events, so there isn't the head-to-head action to
> > play up in the event PR.
>
> No, the RA 2WD National Championship sucks this year.
> And it does about every other year. Last year there
> was some excitement when Kyle and Cary went at it
> (and then Kyle's budget won out), and some between
> Duplessis and me (but not very much). RA and the press
> only really started noticing it around the time of
> Ojibwe.

WMG changed the folks assigned to RA mid-season last year. It took them a little time to get up to speed. And then WMG got dropped this year, so RA starts all over again with Ananda.

> There's no real competition in G2. I'm going to try to
> talk Lou into going to CO, but so far it's pretty much
> guys just winning their local events and not making an
> effort to travel.
>
> Now, Production looks interesting. Jan and Jody have
> come a long way, and Jim usually makes it to a few events,
> so we might see a bit of a race there. But even so, there're
> only two cars in the entire class!

Not knocking the Zedrils or the Stevenses, but that really isn't the type of competition that you can build a story around. Unless you want to hype a two-car championship where both cars are not usually competing head-to-head and there is typically a big gap between the cars when they do.

> > Most of the National Overall Top 10 have run every
> > event this year. There is more to promote there.
>
> Most of the National Overall Top 10 have the money
> to run every event this year.

So, why doesn't anyone with the money to run every event run a 2WD car?

> > The real problem with a 2wd National Championship
> > is that Andrew Havas would just swoop in and win
> > it ...
>
> Uh. We have a 2WD National Championship. I presume you
> mean one with enough coverage to power decent sponsorship
> deals. If that were the case, it could be Andrew...

Yep.

> Or Chris Duplessis. Or George Doganis. Or Tom Burress.
> Or Cary Kendall. Or Josh Wimpey. Or...

No way, no how. They are no competition for the greatness that is Andrew.

Well, maybe Tom. And maybe Chris ... No, no, no! Don't try and confuse me with your contradictory ideas. Andrew wins all!

alan