Usefullness of spot welders

I know I'm asking a lot of welder questions lately.

I'm setup with a good solid decent Mig now.. but am wondering if a hand held spot welder isn't a bad idea. Sure I know you can plug weld etc with a mig.. but does anyone have any experience with a hand held spot welder?

I'm thinking it's a toy that's incredibly usefull when you've got a use for it and a great dust collector when you don't.. as it's not as versatile, but damn handy when it's in it's element.

Or do I just have to man up and get good enough with the mig?

Cheers,

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

alot of people on this forum spend hours on end coming up with outlandish ideas like the "JVAB DEATH RAY" for purposes of seam welding unibody cars to increase stiffness.

unibody cars are held together with spot welds, and some glue.

have you seen what happens to spot welds when you put alot of pressure on the panels, and or sort moving them and stressing them??

They look all neat and clean, and you hardly notice them.

But for 90% of the work you do, a nice mig weld, maybe a buzz with the grinder, and a coat of Rustoleum is just fine.

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Chris

Do It Sidewayz Wrote:
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> alot of people on this forum spend hours on end
> coming up with outlandish ideas like the "JVAB
> DEATH RAY" for purposes of seam welding unibody
> cars to increase stiffness.
>
> unibody cars are held together with spot welds,
> and some glue.
>
> have you seen what happens to spot welds when you
> put alot of pressure on the panels, and or sort
> moving them and stressing them??
>
> They look all neat and clean, and you hardly
> notice them.
>
> But for 90% of the work you do, a nice mig weld,
> maybe a buzz with the grinder, and a coat of
> Rustoleum is just fine.
>
> Chris


RUSTOLEUM!!!? Now that's just being cheap. Get some Duplicolour with the special fan spray nozzle. Slacker.

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Gone fishing

Do It Sidewayz Wrote:
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> alot of people on this forum spend hours on end
> coming up with outlandish ideas like the "JVAB
> DEATH RAY" for purposes of seam welding unibody
> cars to increase stiffness.

> Now Chris you're working on Japanese junk with nary a dab of underbody rubbized uncoating but if you wer instead working on unibody cars being pushed as higher end stuff and if you had to deal with THICK up to or over 1/2" thick rubber cover 100% of the underbody and 100% of the wheelarches, then you would understand why the Death Ray is not outlandish idea (and it's not an idea, its a process been done who a dozen of so cars here) but an amazingly easy and effective tool.
But you work on things hardly touched by undercoating, so it is naturally excessive.



grinder, and a coat of
> Rustoleum is just fine.
>
> Chris

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I would love to have a prtable spot welder for door openings, window openings and the hatch opening.
Much easier and cleaner on those places.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> I would love to have a prtable spot welder for
> door openings, window openings and the hatch
> opening.
> Much easier and cleaner on those places.


That's what I'm getting at. The spot welder isn't to replace the mig, it's to make life easier in certain situations. Even if it's just to get the damn panel in place and welded on so you can stitch it later.

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Do It Sidewayz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alot of people on this forum spend hours on end
> coming up with outlandish ideas like the "JVAB
> DEATH RAY" for purposes of seam welding unibody
> cars to increase stiffness.
>
> unibody cars are held together with spot welds,
> and some glue.
>
> have you seen what happens to spot welds when you
> put alot of pressure on the panels, and or sort
> moving them and stressing them??
>
> They look all neat and clean, and you hardly
> notice them.
>
> But for 90% of the work you do, a nice mig weld,
> maybe a buzz with the grinder, and a coat of
> Rustoleum is just fine.
>
> Chris

Chris,

Communication is not my strong point --- just ask any of my ex girlfriends ---

I didn't mean to suggest that a hand held spot welder would replace a mig welder.. I meant to say, in heavy fabrication/repair it may prove handy.

I'm all for stich welding unibodies.. one of the best things you can do, should come like that from the factory!

As for the death ray.. you should have a gander at a Volvo some time.. it won't seem so outlandish!

Cheers

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

it probably would be useful, but it would be one of those tools i'd buy when i needed, not before.

I've worked on a Volvo..there is a crazy 780 Bertone Coupe running around these parts with an LT1 V8 in it...does the drifting thing! It wasn't THAT bad!

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Chris

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know I'm asking a lot of welder questions
> lately.
>
> I'm setup with a good solid decent Mig now.. but
> am wondering if a hand held spot welder isn't a
> bad idea. Sure I know you can plug weld etc with
> a mig.. but does anyone have any experience with a
> hand held spot welder?

I have actually used one before, or tried to use one, anyway. We had one at the restoration shop I worked at many moons ago. The one we had, at least, worked like crap. The metal you are working with has to be completely bare and clean of any paint, sealer, galvanising, etc. or you won't get any contact. So forget about it for adding additional spot welds on door and window openings. The factory primer and/or seam sealer between the panels will prevent a complete circuit. If the spot welder does manage to burn through all that and make contact you will be lucky if the spot weld has any strength at all. Even with clean, bare metal the spot welder we had would not make a good spot weld and the tips constantly fouled and needed cleaning. We found the thing pretty useless, really, because we would always epoxy prime the inside of any panels we were replacing to prevent rust and you would have to sand that off to use the spot welder. So, in a professional shop we had one but would never use it. Maybe that answers your question? Maybe the one we had was crappy and there are better ones out there. I think if you felt you really must have one then don't bother with a cheap one, get the most powerful one you could find. It still isn't going to be as strong as what you can do with a mig welder.

Go out and buy some of these spot weld/hole saw guys (the ones we have are marketed as hole saws...)


Then only go through the first outer layer on your door/window opening. Weld up the hole and boom. instant spot weld. My cousin and I did both doors on my corolla, and the two side quarter windows in no time. Super fast, super easy, and super nice. Hit them with a flapper wheel on a grinder and boom. done.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I've picked up one of those $50 eBay spot welders to tinker with -- so far it's junk, I need to disassemble/reassemble and clean up all of the contact points along the way, it makes noise but not much current at the business end.

I have a friend who swears by his Miller spot welder ($400ish last I checked).

t

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Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec