Not that I'm jumping on the bandwagon...
Posted by Eddie Fiorelli
Albert Kun Mod Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yeah but that's because they have to retain 8v...... were they allowed 16v they could start with something like this: 
with ports like this 
And then go crazy with work like this: 
Then make the chamber with bigger quench pads: 
And ports raised: 
And bigger valves---there's room thanks to the cylinder diameter being 96-97mm 
And then: Nedan lite Pipemax beräkningar på Volvo motorn. Med 2.4 liters slagvolym hamnar maxeffekten någonstans runt 320 hp vid 8600 RPM. Lämpliga kamvärden för rallycross: 306 107 14,5 5-6,0ot in & ut 290 107 11.0 3,8ot. ( Free translation: below a little Pipemax calculations on this Volvo motor. With 2.4 liter volume lands the max-effect somewhere round 320 hp @ 8600. Suitable cam value for rallycross: 306 duration 107 lobe center, 14mm lift, 5,0 to 6,0mm lift at TDC on intake, and exhaust 290 duration, 107 lobe center, 11,omm lift, 3,8mm lift @ TDC) Ah! Angleski for youse guys!: 
320 BHP for 2.5 liter. Normal aspirated. Not allowed in rally, this is a rallycross motor. But here, Gp2 killer. Even a milder version at 250 bhp would be hilarious. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Billy Elliot Mann Godlike Moderator Location: Royal Oak, MI Join Date: 08/11/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 557 Rally Car: 1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO! |
George Doganis Mod Moderator Location: San Diego Join Date: 03/25/2007 Age: Ancient Posts: 94 Rally Car: Civic |
John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Derek Bottles Super Moderator Location: Lopez Island/ Seattle WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 853 Rally Car: Past: 323, RX2, GTI. Next up M3 ? |
A.J. Johnson Super Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Billy Elliot Mann Godlike Moderator Location: Royal Oak, MI Join Date: 08/11/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 557 Rally Car: 1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO! |
This is a 1.6L making a measly 111 torque at the wheels but it's above 100 from 6k up to 9500rpm and makes 185whp. This result is from a ported head, stock cams, valve springs on a stock bottom end. All that will be run through a 1.2 5th gear and 4.9 final drive. For reference, a stock 5th gear is 0.848 and 3rd would be 1.458 and stock finals are 4.4 on a B16 trans. Typical 1.6L motors make 140 at the wheels. 
Frankenstein 2.0L motors typically make 172 peak at the crank for low rev mild builds which are 230hp at the crank: 
B20block /B16A head, 84.5mm bore/11.5:1 compression, BC0010 spring/retainer kit, TWM 50mm ITB, RC 440cc, 4-1 header, 2.5" collector, sprockets set at +1 int/-1 exh, 91 octane pump gas. That's no head work. Just mild compression (high comp builds go up to 13:1), throttle body, injectors, header, exhaust, cams and cam gears, probably. This motor would be a best when built to rev up to 9k with head work. Here's some random K series dyno chart: 
All this in a car that weighs 2400lbs rally ready. If you put it in a CRX like Cody's you're looking at a 2100lb car? Not sure what Cody's car weighs, but caged CRXs weigh in at 1800lbs I've seen. How many tons do those Volvos weigh? I would think the Sweeds would run a Volvo, it is a sweedish car after all. That's like asking why don't they run mustangs at the drags in Europe (I don't follow Euro drags so I'm not sure what they run). Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2011 04:57PM by BillyElliot. |
Andrew Sutherland Godlike Moderator Location: Studio City CA / Camas WA Join Date: 02/22/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 275 Rally Car: Subaru, EVO, Honda, Husky |
John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
That dyno chart belongs according to their web-site---to this price-list:
Then add 0.5mm bigger valves +$300 bowl work for valves....+$100 diamond milling--whatever the fuck that is...+$50 machine big ports...................................+$300 performance cams...................................+$500 Intake manifold combo..whatever that is....+$500 Fuel pressure regulator............................+50 So what head was it, the $1500 head or the $1500+ the $1800. $3300 in the head sound liike the classic chasing tiny % of improvements for cubic dollars. Not arguing with you---I did just say the motors are jewels---but the outrageous claims always play out like this..."Stock poerted head--bazillion Beee haitch Peeees" then it transpires that its not stock it's thousands.
I only poted the same weight chart like 30 times in the last 10 years, but between 2550 and 2650lbs
You cannot be serious. Shirley, you must be joking. Then how do you expain 20 years of German Opel Ascona B being the car that filled the stages there? And English Ford Escorts being runner up in numbers? You have to be joking---put some smiley face thing next to silly stuff so we know its supposed to be silly.
Depends on the class, just like here. Why don't you go look at the link where i posted the Volvo head work from and you'll see Dart top fuel heads, SBC, BBC etc... John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Billy Elliot Mann Godlike Moderator Location: Royal Oak, MI Join Date: 08/11/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 557 Rally Car: 1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO! |
That dyno chart belongs according to their web-site---to this price-list:
That 185whp from a 1.6L is for ONLY $1500 of head porting. The B16 head runs out of breath around 8k RPM. The porting just allows it to breath to 9500rpm. IF you added the cams/ports/manifold you'd be pushing well over 200whp. But at that point you're spending your money wrong, not that guys haven't done it. Hell, Roger Foo made 192hp off a 1.6L that had a 9200 limiter.
http://sportcompactcar.automotive.com/69912/0202-sccp-1995-honda-civic-dx/index.html How about this... 257hp at 8100rpm off a 1.8L stroked 1.6 motor. Add another .2L and you're getting ~280hp. Compare to K24 (that's 2.4L if you can't figure it out) and you're talking even more with extra torque. When some N/A volvo can beat my 160hp at the crank, maybe I'll step up my game to build a 2.0L monster. Until then, all I need is 160hp and gutless torque to beat your Volvos. Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2011 07:52PM by BillyElliot. |
Carl Seidel Infallible Moderator Location: Fe Mtn, MI Join Date: 02/10/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 765 Rally Car: 1993 honderp |
Dont worry, another year and I'll be done with school and then I can prove you wrong. 
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Billy Elliot Mann Godlike Moderator Location: Royal Oak, MI Join Date: 08/11/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 557 Rally Car: 1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO! |
Well, I'll have an Integra Type R motor by next year. So I'll hopefully be making 200whp by then? But you need to talk to Dr. Agin and his crazy skullet and something to do with 88mph so you can get on the stages sooner. For those who don't know... he's a physics professor at MTU 
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Carl Seidel Infallible Moderator Location: Fe Mtn, MI Join Date: 02/10/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 765 Rally Car: 1993 honderp |
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