Bushings

Quote
NoCoast
So, two car companies have done motor mounts in that method. How many privateers have and have had any luck doing so?
Those poly ones are cheap and probably sufficient for now.
Fuck stitch welding. Cage, seats, rally.

Well there's thousands and thousands of Ford Escorts (World Cup Crossmember is an early incarnations with the rubber bushes mounted on towers welded to crossmember), there's :
the passel of Sierras of all variations from 3 door to
World Rally Car Escort Cosworth world wide ,
there's RS200 fwd F2 cars,
there's GpB Celicas,
I've done Datsun 510,
Capri,
4-5 Xratties,
I've seen some Bavarian Maggot Wagons done this way for roadrace,
I did together with Kevvi Hoikansainalainenen's 240 Volvo.

I haven't looked at specifically mounts on the rwd cars when i was in Sweden, probably most Opels back in the day didn't..

Question is if there ISN'T something like the Chuck W mounts how much work vs how much troublefree-ness you want?
And further the question should be: are we smart enough to adopt well proven ideas and incorporate them because they're easy and have a guaranteed good outcome?

And fuck stitch-welding? I dunno. maybe on the "car just to get the feet wet" but the advent of all weld in cages sorta makes one weigh ways to keep a shell longer before throwing away a caged shell and incurring costs of cage again, dudn't it?

Aside from the cleaning of undercoating/soundproofing on Xratties---which are very unusual in the amounts of poooo slathered on so thick---is it really that horrible doing the welding part? I did 5 cars alone between 98 and 03, and i was pretty fucked up at the time, but I survived.

Modern cars are built pretty damn lightweight, seems cheap insurance to me.

And its a lot more pleasant pounding a solid built car with a powerplant that doesn't leap around.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Found something, 3rd item down

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/catalog/catalog.php?page=2&category=e30%20Motor%20and%20Trans%20Mounts

Right damned price too. Hopefully they will last a lil' bit.

Those bridge supports your call motor mounts will have to wait, a bit, until I can fab something like that. Looks like the way to go, though. One question- On a motor that doesnt have a provison for it, like the 240, bolting something like that to the block doesnt make it want to break up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2011 09:34AM by BobOfTheFuture.

Also, the above are E30 mounts. Looks like, even though they are straight through, It seems the 240 mount has a hole in the middle for a centering pin. Supposedly you just have to drill out this hole and bolt it all together. Sounds like fun.

i plan on using these universal LT1 swap mounts as my base for the engine swap. Weld the part meant for the engine for welding to the frame. Then just make a plate to mount the engine and cut /weld the other side to that. they are from progressiveautomotive.com. something like 149 dollars.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2011 09:49AM by Gravity Fed.

Quote
john vanlandingham
is it really that horrible doing the welding part? I did 5 cars alone between 98 and 03, and i was pretty fucked up at the time, but I survived.

The welding part is easy. It's the disassembly and reassembly that causes the problems. How many of those 5 cars have seen a rally stage?

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
john vanlandingham
is it really that horrible doing the welding part? I did 5 cars alone between 98 and 03, and i was pretty fucked up at the time, but I survived.

The welding part is easy. It's the disassembly and reassembly that causes the problems. How many of those 5 cars have seen a rally stage?

What the fuck Grant?.

You have stated that YOU are lucky that ChuckW made a decent solution---I have his stuff on my street car, Sean has it on his rally car, fine Grant, fucking point made.

But what are guys who don't have ChuckW making his nice mounts supposed to do?
The question of this style mount is: are we smart enough to see the advantages?



As to those 5 (why don't you ask about all those GpA sierras, Sapphires, Escorts etc? which obviously work?)

But those guys who have done it: ALL have been happily married, changed jobs, bought houses, had kids. Life got in the way, they made other choices.


And not declared bankruptcy.

Your point?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
What the fuck Grant?.

You have stated that YOU are lucky that ChuckW made a decent solution---I have his stuff on my street car, Sean has it on his rally car, fine Grant, fucking point made.

But what are guys who don't have ChuckW making his nice mounts supposed to do?
The question of this style mount is: are we smart enough to see the advantages?

As to those 5 (why don't you ask about all those GpA sierras, Sapphires, Escorts etc? which obviously work?)

But those guys who have done it: ALL have been happily married, changed jobs, bought houses, had kids. Life got in the way, they made other choices.

And not declared bankruptcy.

Your point?

My point is that there is a high correlation between striving for a high level of preparation and never making it onto stage.

My point is that most people don't have the ridiculous persistence to remain involved regardless of what kinda shit life throws at them, kids, bankruptcy, wives, divorces, houses, economy, etc. that I and certain others do.

My real point is that there is a high correlation between overcomplicated builds and never ending up on stage.

These points are what are making me look towards Open Light as a potentially sustainable class for Americans that want to rally. 2WD can still be the builder class for people that like building and rallying cars but lets face it, most Americans don't have the perseverance to put in 100+ hours on prepping a shell plus another 100 hours reassembling in order to spend $3000 to go race for two days over 100 competitive miles. Willing to buy a built car and spend $250 per weekend to race 30 miles six times a year with 20 nearly identical cars? I think so. Which is why I am now lined up and planning to do five Impreza cages next month.

For stuff like motor mounts, find the best off the shelf option you can.
Stitch weld anything that is easily accessed if you have access to a welder.

That point, as I took it, Was there is a happy medium between preperation and cost+time invested.

Something like these motor mounts, seems like you could make em last until some point down the road when the inevitable motor eats it on stage, and you could say to yourself "You know, While it's out..."

Quote
BobOfTheFuture
That point, as I took it, Was there is a happy medium between preperation and cost+time invested.

Something like these motor mounts, seems like you could make em last until some point down the road when the inevitable motor eats it on stage, and you could say to yourself "You know, While it's out..."

Exactly.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

See? Im catchin' on

Bob,

FYI, I have rallied on and off for over 30 years, and never stitch welded a rally car. Some cars are stronger than others and they fail in different ways. Stichwelding would have done little good on my old Opels; the front suspension subframes bent first, and the real body stress was where the front subfames flexed the firewall and tunnel. We drove some pretty rough stages in those days (80's Michigan rallies) and never had an issue that stichwelding would have fixed at all. The Colt and Starion had/have no stictch welding and we never bent anything. Those old RWD Mitsubishi's are basically pretty tough, and I suspent the Volvos fall into the same class.

So, for the Volvo, I agree with Grant; do the basic prep, and go rally and have some fun. You are likely to wad up the car and fix a ton of other stuff before the stichwelding will show any results at all.

IMO, ask if there are any particular weak points in the Volvo suspension, like strut towers or similar, weld up them if you have the time and it is convenient when others things are being worked on, and move on to better uses of time and effort for the level of prep that will get you out on stage with a basic car. Don't make it a garage queen....(And, IMO, John has more time to work on these things as he works on and breathes car stuff 24/7; for us goons with regular day jobs, time use is different.)

Regards,
Mark B.

Quote
starion887
Bob,

Those old RWD Mitsubishi's are basically pretty tough, and I suspent the Volvos fall into the same class.


IMO, ask if there are any particular weak points in the Volvo suspension, like strut towers or similar, weld up them if you have the time and it is convenient when others things are being worked on, and move on to better uses of time and effort for the level of prep that will get you out on stage with a basic car. Don't make it a garage queen....(And, IMO, John has more time to work on these things as he works on and breathes car stuff 24/7; for us goons with regular day jobs, time use is different.)

Regards,
Mark B.

Well some people may have different definitions of what tough is, and I don't consider any production car "tough' or "stiff' torsionally, and that of course all depends on what you're used to and how fast and hard you drive.

And I clearly have LESS time since, for nearly 7 years on top of work projects---always slowed down by increasing spine shit, I have been doing the bulk of the minding the kids in the day, shifting production to night....
That's why once I sold the head and then a month later the crank out of the Cossie 4x4 thing it sat...first things first, and a new marriage, and suddenly, I don't know how, there were 2 wonderful squirmy-girls here.
are the first priority, everything else second....I don't get and second or third chances at the marriage and fambly thing like all youse young pups.

But.
Stitch welding is good. It takes a bit of work up front---and saves a shit ton of work later.

(And logically anybody who pauses a second can see the flaw in the "ahhhh don't stich weld it" gang's rationale: how would they know how much work it is, and what the car lasts like----all the while feeling much more pleasant to drive I must stress----since they have nothing to compare to?
Huh?

Huh?
Neener--neener!!!

(3 Girls are watching old 40s Looney Tunes in the back ground, sound effects oh man)

Remember, it all depends on how long you intend to keep the car (that you may spend a shit-ton o dough sticking a cage in ---I might remind you..[/haughty tone off]

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ain't trying to say you don't have a lot to do, John. I know you're the main daytime girl raisin' dude. But you get to the shop regularly. I spend about 100-120 day on the road each year, selling and installing, and my typical day is long. No chance to even look at the garage, much less work on the car. So, some folks have to look at this differently, due to their jobs, lives, relations etc., and stitch welding falls way down the list for me.

What I would like to say Bob and others is that you don't have to stitch weld to get a rally car on the road, and the cars can last quite well; that's just a lot of personal experience speaking. Logically, one doesn't have to know how it feels or improves things to make the simple observatoin that cars can last just fine in plenty of rallies without it; if you run multiple non-stitch welded cars and in, lessay, 40-50-60 events, and find that it works, then it works.

Getting guys out on stage and getting driving time and expereince, and just having the fun, is worth a lot more than stitch welding for at least 95% of us; just my HO. Building a top notch car? Got the time? Do it.

Regards,
Mark B.

I think this will come down to what kind of situation I get into for a cage builder. Which I still have to start making calls...


Thanks for the info, everyone.