Trade a 244 for a 240gt, thoughts?

Well a 240 gt has come up for sale locally and it got me thinking, "would buying that car yield a better result sooner than if I continue putting time into my 240 4 door 5 speed? Also would the end result be less money out of pocket?

Link to the add: http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1979-Volvo-240-GT-Coupe-W0QQAdIdZ527932491

Here are my thoughts: Positives first

+It may come with a factory lsd that I could use for a while just to get out on stage
+It probably has less rust... less time doing body work which im slow at to begin with
+4 speed would hold up better, has better gearing than the 5 speed i got currently at least from what I can tell looking at ratio charts.
+2 door makes getting in and out of a bit easier (not sure if I should even be worried about this)

-It looks way better but with the round lights and the flat hood but these parts are harder to find should I damage them... which is inevitable.

Thoughts? What would you folks go for?

Sounds like it doesn't run? So you can't confirm the engine, trans, rear end are any good at all?

4 door shells are stronger , 4 door shells have access to the rear compartment allowing better placement of spare and stuff.

For some reason I don't think they came with LSD unless someone put it in, not sure why I think that.

Quote
heymagic
Sounds like it doesn't run? So you can't confirm the engine, trans, rear end are any good at all?

4 door shells are stronger , 4 door shells have access to the rear compartment allowing better placement of spare and stuff.

For some reason I don't think they came with LSD unless someone put it in, not sure why I think that.

Typically in a body shell the bigger the holes the weaker the shell. Big holes are full of air and its bend modulous is a lot lower than sheet steel.

The main thing I was stinking is this: one of the supposed advantages of a box but balanced cheap car like a 240 is that you in your secret recesses of the heart know that you can beat on it harder and take a few more risks with a $200-$88 240 than some misguided boy who has $5000-15000 in the roller shell.
Round here you bang up some panels in a 4 door 240, you can probably get the right color at the Pick-n-pulls


Now i agree that the round lights are the best looking, and the portable TVs are icky.
But :

all OEM ratios are crap and all RWD Volvo boxes are sketchy...
All. So that's neither + or -

You don't want to fuck with old, god knows how neglected K-Jet fool infection
It is very nice when under 20 years old and the engine spec exactly as designed.
Forgettit.
LH2.2 is easy, LH2.4 is chippable


LSD which i reccomend everybody try 4-10 times is rarer than hen's teeth

Although it was a dealer option and statistically more common in Canajian 240s BUT
If it had a Dana or the real real yummy ZF diff, the owner would know and be axing millions.

The devil you know, ya know?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

BUT R SPORT CLUSTER (in some sort of homer pouty voice)

Your logic makes a lot of sense so ill stick with what I got. I can't say I have the volvo pickings you do at the local pick n pull, but if its not there in the colour I want it will be within a month.

According to the numbers on my MAF sensor I got 2.4 injection... didn't think any of these old swedish john deere's were chippable!

Well since its in my head even though it is sidetracking a bit i've read somewhere that different b23/b230 bottom ends are more stout than others. For the meager amount of power ill be making i'm not to concerned but just curious how do you tell if said 240 has a beefier bottom end?

Be a good one for parts

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Eric Ewert
BUT R SPORT CLUSTER (in some sort of homer pouty voice)

Your logic makes a lot of sense so ill stick with what I got. I can't say I have the volvo pickings you do at the local pick n pull, but if its not there in the colour I want it will be within a month.

According to the numbers on my MAF sensor I got 2.4 injection... didn't think any of these old swedish john deere's were chippable!

Well since its in my head even though it is sidetracking a bit i've read somewhere that different b23/b230 bottom ends are more stout than others. For the meager amount of power ill be making i'm not to concerned but just curious how do you tell if said 240 has a beefier bottom end?

OK demystifying B200/B230...


In the perkinnink (beginning) there was the B18, pushrod, 231.7 from crank centerline to the top of the block.
It has a big nasty forged steel crank with 80mm stroke and 62.5

Here:
Stroke: 80 mm (3.150 inches)
B18 bore: 84 mm (3.307 inches)
B20 bore: 88.9 mm (3,500 inches)
Con-rod length (c to c) 145 mm (5.709 inches)
Firing order: 1-3-4-2
weight approx: 155 kg
piston height, total: 71 mm (2.795 inches)
piston height, pin center to top: 46 mm (1.811 inches)
piston to wall clearance: 0.01-0.03mm
Crankshaft main journal diameter: 63.45 mm (2.498 inches)
Con-rod's bearing's journal diameter: 54 mm (2.126 inches)
Wrist pin diameter (up to 1973): 22 mm (0.866 inches)

Then came B21 SOHC everything the same except bore went up to 92mm

and a few years later pin went to 24mm /.945" and the rods were called "M" rods


These are stout motors, nothing can hurt them, and a million BHP is possible---but with that 46mm comp hgt piston, weighing in at gawd knows what but at least a metric shit-ton, it ain't going to want to do a million revs.

Then came B23...only thing different was the pistons, now 96mm and the block was matched..

But then Volvo wanted to modernise the motors --about 15 years after the rest of the world stopped with pistons in the 44 to 46mm range on comp hgt.

So they revised the guts.
B200 and B230 got a full counterweighted cast iron crank with 55mm mains, 49mm rod journals, absurdly spindly little toothpicks for rods called "9mm rods" which were 152mm c-c or 7mm longer and pistons went down from 46mm comp hgt. to 39,7mm---big reduction in both rotating and reciprocating weight..
Essentially from one extreme to the other...

Then some point in 1989 they revised the rods from toothpick sized to maybe chop-stick sized and called it "13mm rods", pieces of shit but a bit stronger, still 49mm journal but they upped the mains up to 63mm.
At the same time the thrust bearing--the thing that has to take the load <---this way and ----> way when you stomp on the clutch was moved from No3 to no5 main journal..

Now herein is where a lot of hoooey is repeated endlessly.
"Everybody" says the no3 position leads to thrust bearing wear or thrust face wear on the crank, loss of oil pressure and agonizing death..
And that the fact it is a separate C shaped bearing..
Hooey, the problem is they cheaped out and gave each face of the thrust one C...but talking with an adult on the phone--since I have never poked around in a "bad" B230, an adult guy in Georgia (the American one) had one and I asked him to look at the machining on the block and main cap.
They were as I knew machined as a assembled unit.. Easy as pie to add a second C making the thrust jouranl full 360 degrees..

So there is no know method for knowing if you have the tooth-pick like 9mm rods or the chopstick like 13mm rods..short of a Vulcan Mind Meld or spinning off all the pan bolts and looking..

So look.

Bear in mind rising star Alperti Kunkanen from Mill Valley CA had a junkyard motor from the 85-86 years virtually certain to have been born w 9mm rods in his nice 79 or 77 rally car
and I stress born cause at this point there's no way of knowing..
He got nice short gearing--4,88 I recall and buzzed the hell out of that poooor innocent thing and did I dunno 5-6 full events before something happened. Maybe more...

Oil pressure at the right pressure and oil temp--directly related to pressure is the key to happiness.

Now sans doubte 63mm mains are stouter than 55mm mains but by any reasonable modern standards, 55mm mains are big.
Duratec Ford/Maz-dog PZ or whatever the fuck they call it come with turbos, 255 or so BHP and a warranty and their mains are 53mm and its a cast iron crank on most so don't panic about that and don't think you have to "get the late block cause it has squirters---and no harm can come to my motor because its like a magic force field"..

If you open the motor up, its about 30 minutes tops to drill and tap the main oil gallery to accept a specific BMW oil squirter...and if you're on cast pistons because of cost, a squirterization mod is cheap insurance.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The proper price for a 242 is $300-$400, and they will all have clapped out motors. Turbo 242 are worth more but a pain in the ass because of the dinosaur k-jet.

The common volvo LSD is super rare and fragile, way better off to weld a diff. Do you know about the 1030 vs 1031 axles?

If not:

1030 is the rear axle in 240s from 75-about 83. They have the standard dana 30 diff, so you can buy ring and pinions for $120 from Randy's in any ratio.

1031 is from later 240s and all turbo 240s, has a funny sized r&p, so lower than 4.10 is over $1000 special order from Sweden.



sounds like you should find a 1030 for your car.

I have grieviously abused many b230s with the skinny rods for years on end. In a NA car, it will be just fine.

My secret recipe for the b230 is find a K cam, shave the head 50-70 thousandths, and do a .035 Cometic head gasket and a fresh timing belt. This wakes it up nicely.

Otherwise don't bother wasting money on it, treat it as disposable and see if can kill it, I bet you can't.


I like lh2.2 better than 2.4, its simpler, and 2.4 has the goofy "dog dish" flywheel which weighs an extra million pounds. If you have this, when you switch to a T5 trans (which you should do) I have some of the flat flywheels with the timing notches for lh2.4, or JV has sweet billet flywheels... Don't bother with chipping, or a tach for that matter, just rev the piss out of it, then rev it some more.

For winning Group A style, you can put a "flat" hood on your newer 240, the cowl vents leave a gap, but that would be groovy for a rally car, and the 4 round headligh set up from the late 70's (like Ian Topping has) actually give really good lighting.


cheers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2013 02:10AM by alkun.

don't even f@<k with that car. I went and looked at it. rotten floor, trunk and front suspension towers. only good thing is the cluster and buddy seems to think its worth restoring. pass

---

what could go wrong?

Thanks for the heads up, ill steer clear! So in other words give him 100 bucks for the cluster/ front grill and flat hood haha.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2013 01:51PM by Eric Ewert.

I got a spare 1030 rear for you if you want it. i'm working in Calgary quite a bit these days so i'd even deliver it for you for say, maybe some Guinness or Jameson's if you're feeling real generous...

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what could go wrong?

There's no lack of Guinness around my place if thats what you want! When are you in calgary? I gotta get rid of some crap (mostly volvo interior bits) before Ill have a place to put it but that shouldn't take long.

Also thanks for the big load of engine info john, its a lot to absorb but sounds like regardless what I got it should hold together pretty good... with the addition of a couple things!

On the note of oiling... accusump? good or useless?

Quote
Eric Ewert
Also thanks for the big load of engine info john, its a lot to absorb but sounds like regardless what I got it should hold together pretty good... with the addition of a couple things!

On the note of oiling... accusump? good or useless?

I wouldn't.
Good oil cooler, oil temp gauge, oil pressure gauge.
Remote filter mount makes things easier..We have piccies, natch.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2013 01:09AM by john vanlandingham.

Stock Volvo oiling lasts for 300k plus miles....rule of thumb for racing engines is 10psi for every 1000 rpms turned. So keep it simple as John points out. Get a car together, get on stage, make adjustments and additions as time, money and need dictate.

Quote
Eric Ewert
Also thanks for the big load of engine info john, its a lot to absorb but sounds like regardless what I got it should hold together pretty good... with the addition of a couple things!

On the note of oiling... accusump? good or useless?

Yeah that's why I say to folks take notes, and "save" in Favorites the info.

There's so much more, that was all about stock junk..

And if the engine is out, have a peek inside, Its easy.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.