Tall Pines "also ran" or "had more fun then anyone!"
Posted by Mad Matt F
Matt Follett Ultra Moderator Location: La Belle Province, Montreal Join Date: 03/13/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 645 Rally Car: Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun! |
The long story…
The Justy LIVES!!!!!!!!!! The week leading up was pretty hectic to get ready, not just the car, but life as well. I’m a stay-at-home-dad, and my partner couldn’t take time off Friday for me to leave for recce or shake-down. No worries, I’ll just leave when she gets home. Except, I never have anything ready ahead of time, and Thursday night (after finishing up the car at 3:30 am) I came down with the flu bad. Friday I could barely function let alone chase my nearly 2 yr old around the house. In the end the car wasn’t loaded to leave until 9:30-10:00 pm Friday night. I arrived in Maynooth (we love the Arlington ‘cause it’s $25 a night…) around 2:30 am, pretended to sleep for a few hours, got up, towed car to Bancroft. Car was running pretty well, but a bit rich (10-11:1 at part to full throttle) earlier in the week. Jeff had brought leaner main jets and we planned to swap them that morning, but in the frigid cold it seemed to be running more around 12-13:1 ( I do love that wideband!) so I said screw it, we’ll leave it. I also flat towed the beast from Montreal behind the Volvo so I didn’t have to rent/beg/borrow a truck and trailer  But as we only had one pair of tires made within the decade, I didn’t tow it on them…
We got the car tech’d but the bone shaking cold at 6 am was killing the marginal battery, so by the time we sourced another battery, there was no time to change tires. We went into Parc Expose with seconds to spare, on old Hakka 10’s that were harder than shoe leather. First transit saw the first real road travel the car has seen since the motor build. It pulled great, if nothing else sounded AWESOME. The throttles were a bit sticky, and sometimes it would hold up around 3000-4000 rpm, but otherwise response was great. First stage was fun, funny, sketchy at best, my first real stage since 2005 (oh yeah and my first stage on snow ever!). The hard Hakka’s might as well have been hockey pucks. BUT MAN DID WE HAVE FUN! I had my first ever “off”, just no traction on the polished bits and went off mildly in a shallow ditch. I think Jeff thought we would be waiting for sweep. I shoved the beast into reverse, hopped out of the ditch, spun around and we were back on. “We’re not winning races, keep it out the ditch!” “Okay… we’re not winning races” Rest of the stage went well. Car worked pretty good. John is right, we are on pretty much bone stock suspension, with “coilovers” and I swapped the fluid in the fronts to a mix of fork oil and 20-50 cause I read somewhere somebody did that once…  Backs are still stock, with stiffer springs. It’s too hard up front for the ice, but we were on crappy tires too, so nothing really mattered. We were having fun.
A2 started great, and on the less polished surface we were actually moving at a decent clip. About 4 min in the car just stopped. Dead. On a tight section, uphill, with no real room to pull over. Jeff got out put out a triangle (we’re thinking for Car 99…) , and came back. Within seconds, what might have been Crerar and Drake (not sure, was a white suby) came up. They must have gone off and I didn’t see them, or went off on A2 and got out after we passed. With Jeff back from the triangle we managed to push the car off to the side (Sorry anyway to whoever it was that came across us stuck in the middle of the road). Some idiot engine builder either did not torque the cam gear bolts, or otherwise something strange happened. Two of the 3 bolts were awol, the gear was hanging by the third bolt half off, and the belt was off. I slammed the hood, mad, and told Jeff “we’re done” Thought for a sec, opened the hood, looked, thought, grabbed the tool bag, pulled two bolts from the rad support, and bolted the gear back on with them using a pair of vice grips. By hand I couldn’t spin the cam, so we pried the timing belt back on (no long socket to slack off the belt), I bumped the starter once. Pried the belt off again, set the cam timing. Put the car in gear, pushed until we set the bottom end timing. Pried the belt back on, started the car, finished the stage! Because it’s the Justy, and I’m a pro rally car builder, I packed the welder… Worried as hell the cam gear bolts would back out again, at service we tacked them! STAY, STAY M-F-Kr, STAY! Oh and switched to our “good” snows (used Walmart Nexen WINGUARDS!) made within the last decade, but still old. Back out we went. Second time through on Old Hastings on the classy tires was way better, but I still took it pretty easy. Then things started to go a bit awry. It was warming up, and now we were back to running really rich, and the throttle response was terrible, but drivable. I just kept it pretty steady, slow, sliding anyway, and we had fun. Then came the spectator part of the stage… The Justy seems to draw some weird spectator support, and I like to honk the horn, and put my foot the floor… we climbed up the hill a pretty good clip, and ditch hooked the last left hand corner before the finish. The car came out of the ditch and I didn’t let off. But then realized we would go wide and were closing on the finish control, the little gopro camera, oh yeah and the marshals and photogs. I lifted and not much happened. So I mashed the pedal, and turned the wheel… and yep, went into the opposite (left ) ditch, on the other side of the finish! Tall Pines - “winter roads, summer ditches”. We went off on a downhill at a good clip into a wide open ditch and I thought “I’ll drive it out”, turned the wheel, slid sideways, hit something very big buried in the snow, and stopped. I tried to climb out of the ditch, but it wouldn’t quite come out. Shortly, Hartl and Storry came along and gave us a quick tug (Thanks guys!). Up on the road the most horrific sound from the back drivers side… Rear control arm looked like a noodle. I grabbed toolbag and the BFH and started wailing on it, but soon Sylvain (in car 99) came up and gave the disapproving look a father would give a son, and said “I think your rally is finished, can I have your card?” I argued for a moment that I could turn a pretzel into a ruler with my bare hands but he didn’t buy it. Jeff handed him the card behind my back with a wink and a smile, and I went back to hitting the car. We did drive the car off the stage, and back through Bancoft. We took a ratchet strap, hooked the rear wheel to the front, and turned the front wheel while hammering on the control arm (gotta love mechanical advantage). We got the tire off the body, but still about 15-20 degrees of toe out, and 10-15 degrees of positive camber. It drove AWESOME. Jeff pulled the plug on the stoopididy, and we got a trailer 10 k from service. We put up a mild petition to let us run again if we could fix it, and there was lots of support, however we were turned down. I chatted with several CARS, and Pines folks later, and we are being encouraged to write to CARS to express how in the sake of allowing competitors stage mileage, if you can fix it, why not get to run again! Everybody was super nice about it, just “those are the current rules” “probably should be changed” So our rally was done. There is some minor body damage I think, the hit moved the subframe mounts a bit, because the other side has negative camber that was not there before and certainly there is some wrinkling in the rusty ( I mean, um, thin,) metal in the wheel well (pics to follow, I didn’t take any yet)
I think with a ½ hour in service we could have been back in the rally, but dem’s da breaks, and we had a FANTASTIC time for what short time it was. We were last or nearly last on each stage, but I didn’t care, the Justy rides again! |
John Vanlandingham Junior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Anders Green Mod Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 03/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,478 Rally Car: Parked |
Banned Mega Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Anders... why 'not insurance?' (I've been told it is absolutely an insurance concern)
The insurance lanscapes are different on the two sides of the border. As an example we can't even start to entertain bikes or quads at our events because we can't get insurance for them. (To be fair, that is because ASN Canada FIA won't get coverage and we're bound to using their blanket policy) Also you probably aren't aware that the largest single property damage claim for a CARS event came as a result of a car being allowed to re-enter after DNFing. CARS has been looking at a restart rule, but like anything done with an eye to democracy and general approval, it's taking forever. Easy for multiple day events, not as easy for one day events. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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Chris Martin Professional Moderator Location: Toronto, Ontario Join Date: 01/15/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 567 Rally Car: E-85 powered Impreza |
Anders Green Mod Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 03/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,478 Rally Car: Parked |
Banned Mega Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Except that a CARS sanctioned event must use the insurance provided by ASN Canada FIA. To suggest otherwise is beyond optimistic.
Matt, it was great to see you get the car out there an I was truly saddened when I saw the tweet that you were out. PN's just around the corner! First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Anders Green Mod Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 03/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,478 Rally Car: Parked |
Well, there you have it: it's a CARS/ASN Canada policy issue. It's not an insurance problem. Insurance is available. If I can get it, they can get it. If they can't get it, I can give it to them, which means, roundabout, that they can get it. My opinion is that the Canadians have a higher regard for something that maybe I would call "the spirit of the purity of competition". Allowing restarts would place something else (whether it's fun, value for dollar, value of seat time for racers, I don't know, it might be all, might be something else, it's whatever the reason is for desiring restarts) at a higher priority than "the spirit of the purity of competition". So the Canadians stick to their priorities and don't allow it, in my opinion. And if that's what the Canadians are doing, that's fine. If I were them, I'd stand up and shout that from the rooftops.
But with insurance available right now you can't pass the buck to insurance. In my opinion, that leaves desiring something else more than desiring the ability to restart. Anders ps: This post is largely opinion. pps: In my opinion. ppps: I can get you insurance if you want it.
pppps: I know you would rather jump into a sub-zero lake. Grassroots rally. It's what I think about. |
Matt Follett Ultra Moderator Location: La Belle Province, Montreal Join Date: 03/13/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 645 Rally Car: Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun! |
Chris,
I think major congrats are in order to you!!!! First overall!!!!! Nice Job! I heard you guys were cooking. I think the restart was a mutlitude of issues, and we were not the only ones asking. The organizers struggled with it I know. We were told if it did happen the car would have to be re-tech'd. makes sense, sounds like insurance issue. We wouldn't get points (duh) Sounds like competition issue. I see both sides of the fence, and was dissapointed, but certianly understood. Probably too tired to fix the car at that point anyway
Keith, I looked around for you (once we were out), but must have missed you (not sure if we'vemet in person!). My parents came to spectate, and took us out for dinner after we got cleaned up. By the banquet time I was cooked, and just wanted a bed. Kinda wanted to go see everyone, but next time. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2013 11:03AM by Mad Matt F. |
Alexei Stapinski Mega Moderator Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Join Date: 12/30/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 48 Rally Car: 1991 Suzuki Swift |
It's a shame we missed you at the Arlington Matt
 We were there in the 6 person bunk room.
I'll definitely write to Chris M. (huge congratulations by the way!) about restarts. Being on the receiving end of a DNF and having the ability to restart this weekend, I really wanted to help Chris S. get back out there and get some more stages in. We were pretty much in the same boat, we went off on Upper Hastings SS3 on damn Losier's corner, glanced a tree on the front left and got stuck on a huge rock. It took a while to get it off and bend the fender back away from the tire and I had to surrender the card. We drove the car back to service perfectly fine, body damage only. I'll probably voice the opinion that we should be allowed to restart, and run the stages and still be counted as a DNF in the very least. I see very little reason why we shouldn't at least be allowed to run the stages. For the novices that want the seat time, why not? For all the "what if"s, i.e. catching a car on stage, tugging a car out where they may not have been before, those all could have happened anyways. Put them in the back or at least close to where they should be. Superrally would be best, but let's recognize that seat time is important and we spend a ton of time and money to make it to these events. If we can get more out of it, we should. Plus, the spectators come out in the bloody cold and only get to see 13 cars by the end of the day? It would be beneficial for them as well to see as many cars as they can. |
John Vanlandingham Junior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Mega Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
I don't think we've met and I had definitely planned to say hi but relatively last minute day job and other issues meant I was unable to make it to the event. That makes Pines the only CRC event I didn't get to this year. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I support allowing restarts if the team is still competing. In fact I've written several rules proposals to allow it but have always hit a snag somewhere. I can tell you that organizers are rarely in a position to re-tech cars during the event and in a one-day event often folding the cars back into the pack at a meaningful time and place can be difficult. John's right. Write Chris. But also write your regional director and write the President of CARS. That said, if you look at the November President's report on the CARS website you'll see:
First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2013 12:42PM by Morison. |
John Vanlandingham Junior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Matt Follett Ultra Moderator Location: La Belle Province, Montreal Join Date: 03/13/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 645 Rally Car: Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun! |
We won't make PN... I sent the car back to Parry Sound with Jeff. I really need to get some work done, and having a bent car in the garage would not be good right now...
Alexei, I bumped into Chris in the hall on his way out Sat. night. We had a good forlorn ralliest chat, lementing our defeat. Jeff, my nephew, a buddy from school and I spent some time in the bar downstairs until the band hurt my ears (they were good, I just wasn't in the mood), and I went to bed. We pulled out pretty early Sun to get the car and get on the road. John, we will talk for sure re suspension again. I am seriously tinkin' bout getting rid of the control arm and replacing with multi links. Would give better toe adjustment then current, plus a few extras would be spares for either side. Only issue is the spring perch is on the control arm. So might mean coil over, and then there may be a space issue. Not unsurmountable, and while not a perfect solution, when I built the car, the cage doesn't tie in right at the shock top, so towers are not out of the question. Hmmm Somebody wanna buy the Justy???
As for continuing... I actually thought for a moment "Pull the wheel, drive the transit, next stage, and following transit back to service, fix at service." If there wasn't a long paved transit, it would have been done Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2013 02:07PM by Mad Matt F. |
John Vanlandingham Junior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
We'll talk. Talk about debt and why a Fiesta is the answer to all your dreams...it's only debt. It's not like its real money and you only have to pay it back if you really want to... Ya know, if you pay your bills, that only encourages the bastards to send you more.. Stink about dat! John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
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