Shit that bends... on Subaru.

I think "threaded bobbins" is what is being referred to here as thimbles....

Not sure there is a correct term but thimbles bear no resemblance to the item being described. bobbins do (sorta-- if you cut off the flange on one end)


Thimbles



Bobbins

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

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NoCoast
It probably is installer error. Over-torque, cross threading, or rusty hardware.

Or under torqued, allowing more play than expected to work on the captive nuts to break them loose.
Years ago (08) when we got our open class car from Rocket, one of the things our crew learned in the first service was that EVERY bolt in the suspension was on the Torque checklist at EVERY service.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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NoCoast

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john vanlandingham
OK Grant, fine , whatever.. Just going off what a guy who was full time working on nothing but Pat Richard's Subaru from his very begining to several years later...Ya Know--full time???
Daily? And the cars getting pounded..

It was the old Dave Clark and he said --perhaps---I don't know---a bit exaggerated------

"Every stinkin captive nut on the whole car rips loose---so you gotta have these "thimble things".

Made a lotta sense...

So Tavarich Alexei now internet has brought you what it does so perfectly:
One guy says "Guy spent year working sorta -high level, big budget says to me "the captive nuts rip out, maybe think about reinforcing before hand"..........

Other guy says "I never seen that...no problem"

And now the internet has brought you what rally does so perfectly:
In my experience, mostly with friends who working class guys doing their own work and doing a rally or two a year max, this hasn't been an issue...
Rebuked with, "One fairly wealthy guy that was also ridiculously fast and could afford to pay one well respected rallyist to build and maintain his car did it, or should we say, PAID the guy who now says it's mandatory to do it."

Wonder what Zimmer or Don Kennedy or others that have like 50+ events in GC Subarus think...

Don't know what Zimmer recommends. I've never had a problem with one (of course this is my 3rd shell in 14 years). But the first shell lasted 7 years without a problem. May have something to do with the rust condition of the car in general! We tried removing a rear cross member from a rusty 95 shell and all of the captive nuts in the rear just spun. Wanted to use it in a 96 shell where the captive nuts were just fine. YMMV.

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Don Kennedy

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lelikmed
The only reason I don't carry a spare assembled suspenders, because I use Proflex. If these bend then I think car has far bigger problem. Otherwise I have spare KYB/ground control assembly.
Don't know how useful they are though.

I used to carry a full set of stock struts just for emergency purposes. Now that I have extra DMS struts, I only carry one front and one rear spare. As you said. if they bend I probably have a bigger problem that a full set of spares wouldn't help. In fact, the only time I destroyed 2 DMS units. nothing would have helped :'(

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Don Kennedy

I have had two captive nuts rip out of shells before ever seeing a stage, and one after two events. All of them were on the trans cross member. I think Brianne has had a few come adrift in the rear. These are high mileage, unrusty, Texas shells. Usually the tiny little spot weld broke.

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Jason McDaniel

Texan Popeye forearms...

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Grant Hughes

I've had the captive nut break on me once before. On one side I just shoved cut washers in there to take up the slack. Held for quite a while. Then when the other side broke (trans cross member) I broke out the cutoff wheel and got to the backside through the floor and put in a bolt/nut/washer combo.

I found my new-to-me rally car also had the floor cut and bolts replaced on the trans cross member too.

Seems like the a burly inserts would be fine for the trans crossmember.
I have hundreds of them in M8 and M10 if anyone wants to try.
Drill out the captive nut, weld this in...

The rear crossmember is kinda important in tracking straight so I personally wouldn't want to mess with that without an alignment rack.

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Grant Hughes

Bobbins. It's a pain in the ass when you have to cut a hole in the floor to access the nut that has torn loose from it's teeny little spot welds. Why would this happen? Perhaps an oafish service crew member has cross threaded the bolt because shit is bent and holes don't line up anymore, that happens. Or perhaps the driver gives no fucks and smashes into things at full speed and demolishes suspension pieces that tear the captive nuts loose. That happens, too.

It's not just Subarus, I've had it happen on VWs, too. We sent Derek Bottles out of service with a wheel stud and nut bolting the rear of the lower control arm to the skidplate because the captive nut tore out of the chassis. We never thought we'd see him again but he finished with the left front wheel moving back and forth about a foot.

To make the best use of bobbins you make them really long so you can weld them in from the bottom and the top if you can access a second panel where they poke through (think bottom and top of a box section.) That way they will resist moving and tearing out like a captive nut likes to do when things get whacked.

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NoCoast
Seems like the a burly inserts would be fine for the trans crossmember.
I have hundreds of them in M8 and M10 if anyone wants to try.
Drill out the captive nut, weld this in...

The rear crossmember is kinda important in tracking straight so I personally wouldn't want to mess with that without an alignment rack.

No. Grant. Listen to Dave... Both sides of a box. Same basic idea except the "body" part goes way the fuck UP and gets a little zappy pooo

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Bah, nonsense.

All you need is 2 pairs of vice grips, an 8 inch long piece of 4x4 lumber, a roll of bailing wire, a thingie of JB epoyy weld, half a dozen hose clamps and 4 good ratchet straps. And a roll of duct tape.

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alkun
Bah, nonsense.

All you need is 2 pairs of vice grips, an 8 inch long piece of 4x4 lumber, a roll of bailing wire, a thingie of JB epoyy weld, half a dozen hose clamps and 4 good ratchet straps. And a roll of duct tape.

Forgot the killer-zip-ties-of-death ex-Boeing surplus... Good enough to hold a head on a turbo motor making 2 bar boost.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
alkun
Bah, nonsense.

All you need is 2 pairs of vice grips, an 8 inch long piece of 4x4 lumber, a roll of bailing wire, a thingie of JB epoyy weld, half a dozen hose clamps and 4 good ratchet straps. And a roll of duct tape.

All you need is a chunk of wood from the side of the road.

I may sound ignorant but if the steel control arms are known to bend what about replacing them with the aluminum ones? Should be much less flimsy.

There are a couple of reasons to stay with the steel control arms.
- Class restrictions: Production GT, P4 etc. didn't allow for changing control arms.
- The 'fuse' effect. Bending a control arm is better than breaking one, or bending the subframe the control arm is connected to.

Many times I've completed events or stages with bent control arms that *might* have ended with a broken arm if it were aluminum. (That said, I had always heard the aluminum ones for the subaru break instead of bending, but we bent the shit out of one at Rocky last year.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.