Rallying my Mercedes. Need opinions

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NoCoast
Anders could shed some light, but I think the average is like 3.2 events in a lifetime.

I think one thing that scares people away is the learning curve. The current generation are taught to believe they have innate talents that make them instantly awesome. I've met many narcissistic wanna be future rallyists. Though these people often come up with good excuses to never actually build a rally car and compete, they can also be pretty downtrodden when they take 42nd place losing to a bunch of Golfs and lower spec cars.
I have friends that rallied a couple of times then quit that said they couldn't get over the fear of crashing into trees. I've a few that couldn't balance the financial aspect. These guys often still spectate, rallycross, sweep, volunteer, etc.
I'm at a point where driving isn't as important to me. I'm more focused on growth and sustainability than competing. I need to find time to focus on organizing now that we are rebuilding our competitor base.

I don't think its that low...I recall a figure he had of 2.2 events a year...


It would be insane situation if people spend what it costs and only did 3.2 events in a lifetime...It would show some very fucked up mentality even if I acknowledge that a major problem the country has in general is mindless consumerism and to a large degree that is OFTEN reflected in the sport. An example of that is the stupid argument just above about poor Chris Kobiyashi needed to guy "buy" for $900 some "professional instruction"...which is an indictment about the failure of the structure of the sport currently...

Tied into your correct observation that everybody is taught that they're awesome and whatever they do is "totally amazing" and this all pervasive consumerism is the whole "Buy a prepped car (regardless of if its a barely running stock POS econ box) because "you'll be on stage sooner"---the instant gratification part of the consumeroid mind set.

Another example of the consumerist mind set is the whole Notes thing---when 98% are so fucking slow that they have ample time to see what to do and above all need to learn judgement FIRST but hey buy notes and you are instantly (choose one BS answer)
"safer" of "faster" or "safer and faster"..

Or in the discussion that NEVER gets settled about drivers ignoring the rules on stopping when encountering crashed cars if no OK sign is seen....and the talk of the delays of notification of emergency services ... solution instead of pounding the dumb fucks who drive by on their helmets: Buy some fancy tracking shit that doesn't even reliably work on the Dubya Arsey

It is unfortunate but you can't buy a App that substitutes for even a minimally aware brain.

As for you not being interested in driving any more.. You should be.. You are the right age, have enough income, have a well built car, and will have better insight into the trials and tribulation of incoming people and what they--and you---want from an event if you drove more...or were ready to..
One of the reasons why in those countries where rally is a sustainable, mass sport is because the people doing everything have been or are veterans of drivng-and some co-driving...they did more than 3.2 events BEFORE they thought they know what to do to make a fun and challenging and viable event....

They have a few decades of driving usually...


Indeed it has been suggested that a part of the problem here is just how somebody can do 2-4 events, and open a shop advising guys and selling all kinds of stuff----not scolding YOU Grant, it is the norm if you think about it) , or volunteer to be Tech-hero and poof they're tech hero....I recall talking with Christian Edstrom before he got famous about how he volunteered for a position on the old SCCA Rally Board and ziiiiip right in.. he said "This is fucking crazy! Just like (snap) and I'm on the board... I knew some engine guy in Sweden who wanted to be on the Tech committee at SBF (Svenska Bilsport Förening) and after 4-5 years they agree he could sit in on meetings, and then 5-6 years later he was finally allowed a voice...here....just say "Uh OK I'll do it" and you're on the Board! Amazing"

Whatever, I have to find the length of those 50 BMW struts, they're on the welding table (finally!!!) but I gotta dig thru records and see what lower tube length I supplied!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
... solution instead of pounding the dumb fucks who drive by on their helmets: Buy some fancy tracking shit that doesn't even reliably work on the Dubya Arsey

First off... please give me some idea of how we can drive the point home about not passing a car that has stopped and is not showing an OK sign.
Saying 'use an iron fist' or 'pound the dumb fucks on their helmets' doesn't really add any real ideas to the conversation. (It's also suggesting punitive reaction rather than preventive action... we want to avoid the drive-bys in the first place, not penalize them after the harm has been done.)

With that out of the way... do you realize that when you continually repeat uninformed stuff like your above comment about tracking systems you really are causing more harm than good.

You see, IF we find funding to support the cost of running trackers (funding that would almost certainly be sponsorship from a company that wouldn't be involved otherwise) you are now creating the situation where the end users are going to question the use of an unreliable system... even though the leading system we are looking at is NOT the system used in the WRC, has proven reliable in the events it has been used in, and succeeded to communicate in a test we designed to make it fail in testing this spring in Canada.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

And while you are at it..the only 'stupid' part of the Chris Kobayashi DISCUSSION was the arguing by you and you alone. Everyone else was discussing the best options, one of which is DirtFish but certainly not the only option. He would have been better off not buying your rear struts and spending the money elsewhere I'd say.

Anything that happened between Edstrom and the SCCA board is totally irrelevant to anything today so why continually bring up shit that has nothing to do with anything?

And then,,,,you haven't rallied in 20 something years? You putter around on the periphery of our sport , chipping and picking, while most all of your info is either fabricated, false or gleaned form some other rally forums. You are the ultimate fanboi dontcha think??

I think the sport needs someone making entry level parts, yessir. Not sure the sport benefits at all from your myopic viewpoints.

Alternate viewpoints are not a personal attack either so don't be getting your panties in a bunch.

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heymagic
And while you are at it..the only 'stupid' part of the Chris Kobayashi DISCUSSION was the arguing by you and you alone. blah blah harumph harumph!!

.

Sorry Gene I have already spoken with about 5 guys in last 2 days who saw all that shit and all LAUGHED at the suggestion to spend a pile of cash and they have a LOT more income than Chris has..
1 just finished Idaho
The other is his garage mate who is already speaking of building a car---but is very active in Mountain bike racing
The other was an architect who had formerly Holzinger's FIAT131 and a 05 Focus
Other is an already active guy in Quebec
Another guy in Quebec...

All laughed at the suggestion.."Yeah. Right."

Several noticed that ALL the loud obnoxious aggressive advocates of Chris spend a pile of cash had not spent their OWN money and they thought THAT was funny..


A couple thought it was just a little disappointing that none of the "professional instructors" never give any advice on driving ---even just a few words---on any of the many available means like forums....

the thing that Chris and a lot of similar broke ass newbs NEED MOST

Sorry Gramps it is really annoying when people are laughing at you and your buddies..


Oh tell me, how did you learn when you started before you dominated the whole NW scene?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

so having 18 signs composed of Hieroglyphs will save rally?

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

You seem to be even thicker than normal...hard to imagine. It was a different world when I started driving and schools such as Oneals or DirtFish weren't available. It is an option and not the only one, I never said it was the only one. I do question the wisdom of having a guy who has driven exactly one rally car 20 years ago decide he is the best option. Irregardless of being a mediocre driver in a land of mediocre drivers. I'm sure Mr.Bottles could teach Chris plenty, I'd bet Hoche could also. On your best day you couldn't come close to Nate Tennis for skill and who knows if you have the ability to impart knowledge to others. However since you actually asked on semi legitimate (or one of your imaginary friends) , why would or would not a professional instructor give driving advice on a forum such as this? First off is I would simply guess they, like many, don't feel like arguing with you. Second guess would be liability. Third would be you can't really watch a video and tell someone how to drive. Well let me change that, YOU can, but us normal mortals likely can't. And I sure can't tell if his car handles like shit (looks like it does) but hard to tell without driving it.

So lets put this to bed..we all agree Chris needs someone to teach him some basics , none of us can tell if his car is crap. Dirt Fish is one option (do I need to post the definition of option for you??) , blocking off a road somewhere is another option and just continuing one blindly is another option. Your ideas and viewpoints aren't the only ones and still the only stupid part of the discussion was yours.

Now in 30 words or less tell me what SCCA BOD, triangles, Chris' driving, Ander's numbers, Grant's shop, Swedish scrutineers and radio tracking have to do with some kid (whom you are stalking on the internet like Toby) who asked if he could rally a Merc.

Seems to get so complicated so fast around here!

I'd love to post some simple instruction tricks. But here's the challenge with instruction, and I've done a lot of it: every student is different. Some guys have innate feeling, some don't. Some have good points already, some need the basics. Some have amazing natural skills, but need racecraft. Some are hopeless, and may be difficult to save. Wide range.

Until you get in the car with them, it's impossible to help. I've tried. Even sitting with them in the car it's still a challenge. Pro schools and instructors are valuable. No question.

FYI, I have been racing 20 years and rallying 15, active without pause in that time. I've done about 150 rallies I think, and 5 X Games. And I have a coach (Ross Bentley), and continue to work on getting better. I've already won some things, but I can always be better.

The only thing that there never is... is a simple answer.

(except: buy your first car built and sorted out, so you can focus on the rallying part of rallying).

ACP

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heymagic
You seem to be even thicker than normal...hard to imagine. It was a different world when I started (snip incoherant rambling that sounds like the early signs of dementia)

Checked you meds lately Gene?, you are getting weirder and weirder...and I'm sad to see that..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

"Pot, meet Kettle."

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
heymagic
You seem to be even thicker than normal...hard to imagine. It was a different world when I started (snip incoherant rambling that sounds like the early signs of dementia)

Checked you meds lately Gene?, you are getting weirder and weirder...and I'm sad to see that..

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Oh Lord, won't you buy me, a Mercedes Benz....
My friends all drive Porsches, but I wanna service crew like this.....

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

I'm with Gene and ACP on this, randomly practicing in the hope that you will learn something better isn't an efficient stratagey.

In regards to Chris's car, it's not great but it cold be much worse. I have worked on it and co-driven in it.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
Rallymech
I'm with Gene and ACP on this, randomly practicing in the hope that you will learn something better isn't an efficient stratagey.

In regards to Chris's car, it's not great but it cold be much worse. I have worked on it and co-driven in it.

Robert you are smarter than that....Nobody suggested randomly practicing in the hopes.....

The ONLY difference is that 'they' are suggesting the he should do something they haven't and spend whatever--$800-900 for an afternoon of supposedly "Professional Inspector's advice"

It implies that all information must be acquired in a for-pay commercial setting...

I say that if he does as he has done so far.....zero practice for a year---then it is pointless to waste the money, because any new ideas/concepts/techniques will have to be practiced to become "incorporated" or they will fade in short time---and the money spent is then a waste...

I suggesting at the time and place he is at he could call on the phone and/or go have a few beers and talk with any number of reasonably competent and analytical people such as Tom Buress, or Derek Bottles and talk...and follow that with some driving....someplace safe and with good visibility and no trees and no ditches..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Regarding driving technique, is there not some kind of dirt autocross events over there that folk can enter and get a chance to throw the car around and get feel for how it reacts, and thus build experience of how to control the vehicle?
If so the car could be double entered with an experienced driver who would be able to tell if there is a basic issue with the setup and handling.
In rallying trying to learn car control and absorbing / processing note calls at the same time is a bit of an ask. Got to get the basics down first imo, and over here in the UK "autocross" as we know it here is a great and safe way of learning to control a car on the loose prior to moving up to proper rallying.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Quote
wvonkessler
"Pot, meet Kettle."

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
heymagic
You seem to be even thicker than normal...hard to imagine. It was a different world when I started (snip incoherant rambling that sounds like the early signs of dementia)

Checked you meds lately Gene?, you are getting weirder and weirder...and I'm sad to see that..

"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Sure no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."

"Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –
That your blackness is mirrored in me."

honestly if your kitchen appliances are arguing among themselves, its best to seek professional help.

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023