USAF

I do not think I have ever been in conflict with a cop even when they are writing me a ticket - we both agreed I earned it

One of my best college friends was in the USAF that job lead to a like job at a University and then directly into a good company. Via mergers take overs etc he is now the CTO at a massive multinational multi billion dollar firm. He thinks the USAF worked out for him.

Quote
heymagic

Quote
MikeColangelo

Quote
heymagic
I think they are trying to talk him out of security and into a 'better' position. I think he goes back Monday for more discussions.

Rule #1 with enlistment contracts: If it's not on his contract, he doesn't have it. Get everything in writing. This pertains to his AFSC (job code), bonuses, ship date, etc.

Thanks for helping here. I'll run the stuff by you as it happens. So they can guarantee a job or a couple of choices? Do they have sign up bonuses?

AFSC (that's his job) will be in the contract. Sign-up bonuses as well as other bonuses, if available, will be, too.

mmmm......16 yr old girlfriends

































what? this is OFF TOPIC!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2010 05:58PM by Jon Burke.

Just tell him to get into anything computer-tech related where they will send him to school and advance his education.

Study hard for the As-bab(however it's spelled), take the tests seriously and stay away from aircraft maintenence as it's a dead end.

Just my 2 scheckles...

even if 16 year olds were legal, I really can't imagine having one as a girlfriend

Quote
MikeColangelo


I worked for a number of years at Edwards AFB (as an engineer for Boeing) and saw how much better life was for airmen than for soldiers (Army). I got to know many airmen (officers and enlisted) and most seemed to appreciate the Air Force.e]

Why wouldn't they? There's everything that the civilian society and economy isn't: Camraderie, a sense of mission (if you don't scratch that sore and wonder about it too much), you are just flat given (at the expenses quite inflated of millions of taxpayers) education, on the job training, 3 square meals a day, housing, subsidised clothing, food, gas, and on papaer anyway limitless medical and dental care.

Everything that is so missing in the civilian world..
And the work isn't all that hard specially since it's non-profit....

Quote

Also, there are many jobs in all the services that translate well into civilian careers: mechanic,

Mechanic on what? Don't see that many in the trade. I have been daily involved in mechaincal things since maybe 1978 and have a hard time to recall any ex-military mechanics.

Quote

police,

Yeah, as we know so well....
(and I groan again from direct experience of how, as the ex-miltary civil service bonus points thing became more and more common, how the Police in seveal places i have lived, but mostly Seattle, have metamorphisised from a community based force to a bunch of lunk heads , some say a Gang, dressed in blue, who have become militarised and who act very often computationally and too often escalate things to the point of violence---as we see constantly on You Tube videos.

As I said, recruiting people from highly structured, hypped up Gung Ho team spirit we're all "Heroes" "protecting America's Freedomâ„¢", mission directed enviroments where the whole point is to ultimately blow up other people cause they may not want what some plutocrat in USA has decided they should want, and inserting them into situations which quite, maybe usually need complex social solutions
has obviously failed when we admit that whole swaths of the populace view Police with suspsicion and the "Law' with complete contempt...

Quote

supply (logistics)

,


oh, yeah a great, high paying career---driving a fork lift for $8.75/hr

Quote

commo,

Yep I talked at length to a guy at Sprint about how he wanted to get into Communications when he went in and he did: running thru forest hauling a spool of wire and running a couple of wing nuts down really prepared him for a career uh um running thru the woods hauling a spool of field telephone wire....He thought it was funny in the end...as he sat in a cubicle in a warehouse doing customer service calls...

Quote

truck driver, etc.

Yeah another great career, etc.with all the exact same benefits that those in the military have---for free.

Quote

Good luck to your son!

Course i wish him good luck, I wish everybody good luck, but it sucks that the only obvious way to prepare oneself for working in todays economy is to go off and live and work in a system which is the exact opposite of the society in which it is operating, and which costs such a huge portion of the Federal budget....

Seems we can spend limitless billions forever but some can't help but wonder what sort of society one might have if even a small fraction of the money thrown around so thoughtlessly went to education at home and infrastructure development here: Look at the figures

Quote

The U.S. Department of Defense expenditures for fiscal year 2009 are $651.2 billion. This does not take into account military spending outside of the Department of Defense, which when included increases the figure to between $859 billion and $1.16 trillion....
Department of Defense spending accounts for 21% of the U.S.' federal budget, and approximately ½ of its federal discretionary spending, which comprises all of the U.S. government's money not accounted for by pre-existing obligations.[4][6]

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the U.S. spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US $956,000,000,000....
Also, since the United States employs a non-compulsory (and paid) military, and since most jobs within it require high degrees of technical skill and personnel retention, the U.S. armed forces have dramatically higher personnel costs, both military and civilian, compared to the militaries of countries which use conscription, many of which have far more troops than the U.S. However, only China has more standing troops than the U.S.

Of course when you have everything for free or nearly so and limitless budget and a clear mission, life is good, but look what everybody pays:
PerCapita InflationAdjusted Defense Spending



We pay an awful lot for something which is to the benefit of mainly other people.

2008 rank 	2007 rank 	Company (country) 	2008 arms sales (US$ m.) 	2007 arms sales (US$ m.) 	Arms sales as share of company’s total sales (%), 2008
1 	2 	United Kingdom BAE Systems 	32 420 	29 860 	95
2 	3 	United States Lockheed Martin 	29 880 	29 400 	70
3 	1 	United States Boeing 	29 200 	30 480 	48
4 	4 	United States Northrop Grumman 	26 090 	24 600 	77
5 	5 	United States General Dynamics 	22 780 	21 520 	78
6 	6 	United States Raytheon 	21 030 	19 540 	91
7 	7 	European Union EADS 	17 900 	13 100 	28
8 	9 	Italy Finmeccanica 	13 020 	9 850 	52
9 	8 	United States L-3 Communications 	12 160 	11 240 	82
10 	10 	France Thales Group 	10 760 	9 350 	58
11 	11 	United States United Technologies 	9 980 	8 760 	17
12 	12 	United States SAIC 	7 350 	6 250 	73
13 	16 	United States KBR 	5 730 	5 000 	50
14 	13 	United States Computer Sciences Corp. 	5 710 	5 420 	34
15 	15 	United States Honeywell 	5 310 	5 020 	15
16 	19 	United States ITT Corporation 	5 170 	3 850 	44
17 	17 	United Kingdom Rolls Royce 	4 720 	4 580 	28
18 	23 	Russia Almaz-Antei 	4 340 	2 780 	94
19 	25 	United States AM General 	4 040 	2 670 	. .
20 	N 	United States Navistar 	3 900 	370 	26

But as long as everybody get's their bread buttered, like whatever, right?

Quote
12xalt
even if 16 year olds were legal, I really can't imagine having one as a girlfriend

What's illegal about them?

How long is the Statue of limitations?
Cause I had some 16 year old girlfriends..
Even had some 14 and 15 year old girlfriends....
The didn't seem illegal, and didn't wear the same uniforms as the guys on the chain-gangs...

Gee wonder what they did?

To JVL:

Quote
MikeColangelo
To JVL:

Yeah what's the big deal, a huge % of the entire federal budget pissed away, invading other countries for decades and slaughtering quite literally millions to save them from becoming "Commies" , putting poor innocent boys like Brent in situations where upwards of 20-25% develop mental problems, where more men have committed suicide than have died in "battle' in the last couple of years,, yeah what am I getting interested in this for?

I'm a Navy pilot (officer), and my father was an Airforce pilot. I've had friends enlist in various services as well... I've spent a lot of time flying with and working with the Airforce. some thoughts:

1. It's been said, but don't listen to the recruiters. Don't admit to any misconduct (drugs) that you haven't been convicted of. Get everything in writing. Remember... that tv ad that shows F18's launching, and then tells you to talk to your recruiter? Ya, looks exciting but you'll be chipping paint!

2. Airforce is a bit 'different'. In general it seems like a bit of an easier life. Their stuff is often cleaner and newer. Their military bearing doesn't match the other services... but then there is plenty of that in the Navy. All military life is structured, but in the Navy we're expected to think for ourselves. My experience with the Airforce is that they are frustrating to deal with because they are bound by regulations that are often asinine. Sorta like the TSA. Here's just one example: At a Navy base you walk out of your hangar to your jet... end of story. At an Airforce base they have a red line painted on the flight line outside the hangar, but before where the jets are parked. There a very few small gaps in the red line. If you walk to your jet (in all your flight gear), and touch the line where it's red, a security team consisting of skinny pimple-faced 18yo kids with M16's will pin you to the ground. It's laughable... especially when I can drive a rental car on that same base without having my ID checked!

3. I agree and disagree with JVL's position that the military is welfare. It sure can be for some. In my case I worked hard, got accepted to flight school. Spent well over two years in the very rigorous and stressful strike/fighter pilot training pipeline, and must compete to continue advancing in my career. Bottom line: Just like any other job of value, I worked towards it, applied for it, and compete. If I f-up I can be gone. That being said, I've seen some bottom-feeders that just won't go away (officer and enlisted alike). I work hard for the money I make, and have put my life on the line more than once (nothing compared to the ground-pounders in Iraq or Afghanistan). I do yearn to strike out on my own though... not to work for a big company, but to open my own business that does enough for my family to get by, and that has a positive impact in the community (town, rally, running, whatever community).

4. The political aspect is up for debate. Online among friends is no place for that. There is no debate that we spend tons of $$ on the military, and no debate that the procurement process is just about as corrupt as the Afghani government!

5. As a Division Officer, Department Head, and Legal Officer I've seen many junior enlisted folks who lose their way (in no way suggesting that Brent would have any trouble here.. just my observations). They joined with good intentions, and want to get out and 'see the world, but fall prey to the fact that they are joining a lot of other guys from similar backgrounds (not all of them are brilliant). They are often stuck on base, in not so sweet locations. Instead of getting out and seeing or doing anything of value they partake in lots of drinking/general dumbassery and not much else. Pretty soon there is a little harmless weed and a few days late to work. Suddenly it all catches up and they're back on the street with an Other Than Honerable Discharge (OTH) that will fuck up their chances of getting a good job down the line. Many guys get through that just fine, but some do not.

6. The whole 'Serving your Country' thing is important. He's possibly/probably going to end up in places where people want to hurt him, or he will be helping people/fixing shit that supports people going into harms way. Tougher to do that effectively when you joined purely for your own benefit and have an 'I don't need this' attitude.

7. I think enlisting can be valuable. Just like anything else in life though, it is what you make of it. You can bag groceries and learn philosophy etc. Or you can become a Marine (the toughest service discipline-wise I think) and deal drugs. Many guys (and gals) enlist for the education benefits, but never take advantage of them. So I'd say go for it, have fun, but get out and see things. Bust your ass, get a higher degree if possible, do well at work, and have more options when the enlistment is up than when it started.

Quote
frumby
I'm a Navy pilot (officer), and my father was an Airforce pilot. I've had friends enlist in various services as well... I've spent a lot of time flying with and working with the Airforce. some thoughts:

1. It's been said, but don't listen to the recruiters. Don't admit to any misconduct (drugs) that you haven't been convicted of. Get everything in writing. Remember... that tv ad that shows F18's launching, and then tells you to talk to your recruiter? Ya, looks exciting but you'll be chipping paint!

2. Airforce is a bit 'different'. In general it seems like a bit of an easier life. Their stuff is often cleaner and newer. Their military bearing doesn't match the other services... but then there is plenty of that in the Navy. All military life is structured, but in the Navy we're expected to think for ourselves. My experience with the Airforce is that they are frustrating to deal with because they are bound by regulations that are often asinine. Sorta like the TSA. Here's just one example: At a Navy base you walk out of your hangar to your jet... end of story. At an Airforce base they have a red line painted on the flight line outside the hangar, but before where the jets are parked. There a very few small gaps in the red line. If you walk to your jet (in all your flight gear), and touch the line where it's red, a security team consisting of skinny pimple-faced 18yo kids with M16's will pin you to the ground. It's laughable... especially when I can drive a rental car on that same base without having my ID checked!

3. I agree and disagree with JVL's position that the military is welfare. It sure can be for some. In my case I worked hard, got accepted to flight school. Spent well over two years in the very rigorous and stressful strike/fighter pilot training pipeline, and must compete to continue advancing in my career. Bottom line: Just like any other job of value, I worked towards it, applied for it, and compete. If I f-up I can be gone. That being said, I've seen some bottom-feeders that just won't go away (officer and enlisted alike). I work hard for the money I make, and have put my life on the line more than once (nothing compared to the ground-pounders in Iraq or Afghanistan). I do yearn to strike out on my own though... not to work for a big company, but to open my own business that does enough for my family to get by, and that has a positive impact in the community (town, rally, running, whatever community).

4. The political aspect is up for debate. Online among friends is no place for that. There is no debate that we spend tons of $$ on the military, and no debate that the procurement process is just about as corrupt as the Afghani government!

5. As a Division Officer, Department Head, and Legal Officer I've seen many junior enlisted folks who lose their way (in no way suggesting that Brent would have any trouble here.. just my observations). They joined with good intentions, and want to get out and 'see the world, but fall prey to the fact that they are joining a lot of other guys from similar backgrounds (not all of them are brilliant). They are often stuck on base, in not so sweet locations. Instead of getting out and seeing or doing anything of value they partake in lots of drinking/general dumbassery and not much else. Pretty soon there is a little harmless weed and a few days late to work. Suddenly it all catches up and they're back on the street with an Other Than Honerable Discharge (OTH) that will fuck up their chances of getting a good job down the line. Many guys get through that just fine, but some do not.

6. The whole 'Serving your Country' thing is important. He's possibly/probably going to end up in places where people want to hurt him, or he will be helping people/fixing shit that supports people going into harms way. Tougher to do that effectively when you joined purely for your own benefit and have an 'I don't need this' attitude.

7. I think enlisting can be valuable. Just like anything else in life though, it is what you make of it. You can bag groceries and learn philosophy etc. Or you can become a Marine (the toughest service discipline-wise I think) and deal drugs. Many guys (and gals) enlist for the education benefits, but never take advantage of them. So I'd say go for it, have fun, but get out and see things. Bust your ass, get a higher degree if possible, do well at work, and have more options when the enlistment is up than when it started.

Jason and Mike, Thanks for the thoughtful replies and insight. I have a couple boating buddies that are retired Navy. One is a Boeing contractor now and the other just retired from teaching, a ROTC something or other. Both have done well and are quite remarkable people.

Life is a series of experiences, a journey that you can never fully predict. Brent knows about hard work and focus. Some people just seem to accept whatever hits them in the face and others duck...I would worry about him being in the service, but I worried when he took the week long motorcycle vacation up to port Angeles and back. I'm 58 and he is 21, so a late in life choice for us. He was planned and wanted and we've tried to do our best to raise him right. I think we did. There is always danger, Hell you could be spectating an off road race or sitting in a skyscraper doing your job, stuff happens.

I think he goes back monday to talk some more. I'd like him to re-visit the Navy guy just because. His choice in the end.

Thanks again.

Thank you Jason. Good words.
And speaking of the Air Farce
I recall in 1976 a friend Brian from San Jose came up to visit my then housemate Dave Robison who was renting a room from us in Sweden. Brian was a sheetmetal specialist in the Air farce stationed in the Madrid area in Spain. Brian wanted badly to be able to do moto-cross in Europe and so he joined, did a contract so he knew he'd be either there or at Rhine-Main in Germany.. He was doing it the right way: learned his trade good, did his job good, but he said the degree of chickshit nonsense was "too much" in the Air Farce. He told me of a flight of whatever which were bound for Rhine-Main and one aircrft had to divert and landed where he was...
Huge giant problem. The aircraft needed to be fueled up and lo and behold there were no "Fueling Specialists" for that specific aircraft---nobody but a specialist could flip the feul cap up and stick a nozzle in..
Days go by and finally the solution was found!!!
They flew in a "specialist" from Rhine-Main who walks out, flips open the cap, stick then nozzle in and hums while the tank was topped up.

Then the world was all better , the specialist can fly back and the poor pilot can get home to base...after 3 days of thumb twiddling..

NOBODY could or even bothered to ask about LOOKING at the fueling set up, everybody just shrugged and ignored it "Not my job"--except Brian who thought it was unbelievably dumb..

That encapsulates my experience with the Air force, too. Lax, lackadaisical. Too comfy...

Quote
heymagic
. I'm 58
I think he goes back monday to talk some more. I'd like him to re-visit the Navy guy just because. His choice in the end.

Thanks again.

58!!!!!!!!
Good gawd.....why you're old enough to be my, my.....older brother!


(Yeah suggest he talk to the Navy. It's there I was shown and told "a man needs to be able to do a number of jobs pretty damn good, cause when you're shipbopard and should you loose people thru enemy action, we can just pick up the phone and call Division HQ and say send us up some replacements---you still have to make the ship go and complete your mission, so we make sure that a guy can jump in and do a number of jobs to a workmanlike degree..."

Bit more of a challenge than the twidlythumb Air farce way..

Quote
john vanlandingham
Thank you Jason. Good words.
And speaking of the Air Farce
I recall in 1976 a friend Brian from San Jose came up to visit my then housemate Dave Robison who was renting a room from us in Sweden. Brian was a sheetmetal specialist in the Air farce stationed in the Madrid area in Spain. Brian wanted badly to be able to do moto-cross in Europe and so he joined, did a contract so he knew he'd be either there or at Rhine-Main in Germany.. He was doing it the right way: learned his trade good, did his job good, but he said the degree of chickshit nonsense was "too much" in the Air Farce. He told me of a flight of whatever which were bound for Rhine-Main and one aircrft had to divert and landed where he was...
Huge giant problem. The aircraft needed to be fueled up and lo and behold there were no "Fueling Specialists" for that specific aircraft---nobody but a specialist could flip the feul cap up and stick a nozzle in..
Days go by and finally the solution was found!!!
They flew in a "specialist" from Rhine-Main who walks out, flips open the cap, stick then nozzle in and hums while the tank was topped up.

Then the world was all better , the specialist can fly back and the poor pilot can get home to base...after 3 days of thumb twiddling..

NOBODY could or even bothered to ask about LOOKING at the fueling set up, everybody just shrugged and ignored it "Not my job"--except Brian who thought it was unbelievably dumb..

That encapsulates my experience with the Air force, too. Lax, lackadaisical. Too comfy...

Sounds like the union at my previous place of employement

If you could have guaranteed that I'd be doing open water rescues jumping out of a helicopter into the ocean I would have signed up for just about any service. Almost moved to Hawaii to be an open water lifeguard when I was 20. Oh how things change in short ten years. Now I sit behind a desk and long for days of not sitting behind a desk.