Fiestas are brilliant.....

That's the thing. The fucking nerd types who I mention---and we've seen their shit for 20 years now ---overpromised, junky, clunky functioning---and almost always of questionable value--- since all they do is jerk off and jizz on each other about the latest (usually idiotic) thing---have come to belive that talking--communicating about something is the same as doing that thing.


And, being pathological liars--how do you think they drove the Internet bubble?----they know that in 'Merikuh , only a crazy person would EVER say anything about anything if somebody says "SAFETY".

Those techy nerds don't realise that REPORTING that somebody has crashed.stopped moving is not "increasing safety"...it's just reporting after the fact.

People realising they are just ordinary people playing a potentially dangerous game increases safety---in people with some minimal brain function.

And then they start blabbering about "with this we'll be able to have live info on the position of every car and people can buy an app and follow...." and have one more thing that they can stand around staring at their little plastic pacifiers.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Motorsport by it's very nature does have inherent dangers. It's a free world and people choose whether or not they want to enter events. Every little price increase will mean less people are involved as it becomes out of their financial reach which is detrimental to the sport.

Something to consider is how reliable is this rallysafe technology in the different environments and locations it is to be used in.
Another factor is how reliable and trained in it's use are the humans operating the equipment and how they will coordinate any required emergency response.

Late last year Kurt Caselli unfortunately passed away after a bike accident during the Baja 1000. There were so many factors that played out during that incident showing that modern gadgetry is not the be all and end all.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Really ? Try and express an opinion without calling people names just once...it is so hard to have a grown up discussion with this going on. Technically you're a nerd also...always spouting numbers and dimensions and such .


I can see ways to approach funding in the business world, I don't know enough about the system to make a decision on either the value or reliability. No real judgement from me on this yet.

Kieth ...what can the program do in a general sense ..exactly... ???

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heymagic
Really ? Try and express an opinion without calling people names just once...it is so hard to have a grown up discussion with this going on. Technically you're a nerd also...always spouting numbers and dimensions and such .

No Gene , nerds are idiots who rarely if ever make things...they blab about things, they DON'T know an numbers, ---looking up some shit and copy and pasting is not knowledge...
I make things. Its kinda a necessity who making things to be very picky about numbers...

And calling people names...all words are shorthand, Gene...
Some nerds are harmless nerds...Some are on messianic trips and think their little trip, app, dumb idea is THE CENTER of everything, they're assholes and should be shoved in a dark cellar.

Some engineers are all right, good in fact...I've been lucky to know a few...
Some are cliches of engineers: barely human--justa collection of ideas about why everything in the entire world (that they didn't design) is all junk and here's why and what should be done!!
Those are "injur-nears" and are fucking idiots..

Some machinists are idiots.. You need something extremely simple and they'll take 3 times the time to tell you why its going to be so complicated--the set up! blah blah..
Some are nice. like me.

And some car repair shop owners are all right...I've even known 2-3. some--a substantial number, probably the majority are crooks, and/or incompetent, but know that a pleasant manner with everybody smooths all.

What the fuck are you doing trying to argue about defending tech-nerds?

I think it is right that we cannot kill them on sight, no matter how much most people would like to, but defending the people who allow cyber criminality to rob billions, defend the type of person that writes code for spammers, who work as minions for hackers who plunder Paypal accounts, steal credit card info???

What would you call a guy who makes his money spamming porn sites with pop up ads that plant viruses?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

From there FB page,
RallySafe identifies vehicles that are stationary or moving below race speed and sensors are set to instantly warn approaching vehicles of any situation that has occurred above a predetermined volume. RallySafe provides interactive communication between vehicles and race control and does not rely on vehicle power to operate. The heightened safety feature being, that the unit cannot be turned off even in the event of a collision– communications are continuous. Safety warnings to competitors are generated automatically via a vehicle mounted unit, whilst manual interaction for drivers is simple, with the press of a button. Although safety is the number one priority function of the system, the system provides two other key benefit streams - timing and tracking.

It would be nice to know if a car is off on a blind corner. I didnt find it on there FB but ive hurd you can have live video feed. So crew could see the action at the local Mcdonalds. Also will map transits so you wont miss a turn on transit. Crew will know exactly how close you are to service . If your broke down they can find you easy.

It would be a cool gadget I am a cheap guy for the most part but I wouldnt cry if the entry fee didnt go up much. It really wouldnt bother me if they cut some of the Subie money seeing that i cant hardly sign up fast enough to get the discount any way.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Anders, what was determined as the reason the system didn't work out for you at LSPR?

Had this strange idea to learn about rallysafe before i thought more if i would want one or not : http://rallysafe.com.au/2013/02/competitors/

...
definitely jammed packed full of features. and has that Richard Burns /WRC cockpit feel to it

$175 for the car install kit, but it appear that is Sans the actual device. and there's a 15$ damage waiver for 1 event or a 3 pack for $40 ..

A 1 time charge of 175 I would be okay with (not "happy" but hey) . This ain't the 80s anymore, there are no rally sponsors , and basically every dollar spent comes from Competitors (hopefully) or Organizers (sadly) .

I think a smart roll out plan would be to use this for national entrees only. it would allow more time for costs to come down, and for maybe a sponsor to be found to cover it for everyone else. also those truly in the most need for this, and the most ability to pay for it, will get it. seems like it could remain optional for everyone else (RA events where there is a national + regional dealio)

Depending on if the units can be bought from rally-safe , eventually Rally-America could own enough units to start supplying them to regional rallys at subsidized prices ...

I could see this working with out a massive wallet whack to the regional / club level guys.

......

But it seems like every time people are making decisions that will affect the wallets of others (me) i don't like the outcome.

......

.. If you assume Everything at a rally works out as it should (both rallyesafe and normal procedures), Trained Medical help could be dispatched sooner but how much sooner? Normally it would take ~~ 2 minutes from the time you crash for the 2nd car to show up. figure 15-30 seconds to give them a report. , and stage speed i figure worse case you are 5 minutes from a radio point . that's 7.5 minutes but its likely the team driving to the radio point isn't going 10/10ths (I wasn't when i was 2nd on scene at a crash) since you don't want to crash when you are the one going for help. so say 10 minutes total before "net control" gets officially told but that's also in an almost worse case scenario. in a good scenario it could be as little as 5 minutes

Help leaving 5-10 minutes earlier would actually be pretty damn cool.

But for what i'm actually doing (racing a car in the woods) i think that's Beyond fine. i have (and will again) drive out alone to the middle of no where and drive really fast with boulders, trees, and cliffs around me with basically no safety net ... the fact that in a rally there's a whole team of people who will come rescue me is awesome.

but i'm sure there's enough folk with bigger wallets and bigger fears that will be all over this and make it mandatory ...

so in summary. Yes i like it, but i don't want to adopt it too quickly , and not fully at first. unkown costs are more scary than a 1000 into !!! 2L OC /kick exposure ! :O

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A1337STI
I think a smart roll out plan would be to use this for national entrees only. it would allow more time for costs to come down, and for maybe a sponsor to be found to cover it for everyone else. also those truly in the most need for this, and the most ability to pay for it, will get it. seems like it could remain optional for everyone else (RA events where there is a national + regional dealio)...

In Canada, at least, there isn't a firm roll-out plan yet. We're still evaluating what the impact is 'on the ground' for organisers and teams, and even IF this is the best option or not.
We're more than two years looking into this from a variety of angles.

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A1337STI
Depending on if the units can be bought from rally-safe , eventually Rally-America could own enough units to start supplying them to regional rallys at subsidized prices ...

RallySafe doesn't want to sell them and you don't want to own them... that is abundantly clear from what we've seen so far.

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A1337STI
If you assume Everything at a rally works out as it should (both rallyesafe and normal procedures), Trained Medical help could be dispatched sooner but how much sooner?

Worst case scenario is when the car isn't visible from the road and the crew can't get out. (happened to me in the last event) In some cases it could be easily a half hour sooner if not more.
In our case, it would have taken 10 minutes to figure out we were actually missing (or showing the OK sign) if I hadn't had a radio with me.

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heymagic
what can the program do in a general sense ..exactly... ???

'What would RallySafe do"
In short, in the event of a serious accident it would likely cut response times for paramedics/ambulance by 10 minutes (best case scenario) or more (common place scenario)
The other benifits are also very tangible to competitors and organisers
- Pass request: send a notification to the car you just caught that you're behind them. Slower car won't get out of the way? Clerk can find out that pass request was repeatedly sent, and ignored and act accordingly.
- Rally ODO replacement: (works as good as most odos out there and stores stage times)
- Electronic Triangle: Car ahead of you is blocking the road, you'll get a 'yellow flag' hazard warning about 300m before you get there.
- Automatic SOS: Have a hard hit or roll over? Unit automatically sends out a SOS that can be manually downgraded by occupants.
- It's OK, were on the way: Control can send text messages confirming the SOS has been received and help has been sent. Questions with Yes/No answers can also be sent to the unit for further information.
- Stop!: Need to shut down a stage? The entire field can be downgraded by sending a message to every competitor! You can ask for confirmation of receipt from each car as well.
- Car 54, where are you?: No more cancelled stages because you can't find a crew that's pulled off and parked out of sight.
- Sweep me up before you go-go: With sweep equipped with a unit, no more will they pass a competitor parked out of sight of the road, but wanting to continue.(I saw this happen at PFR this year)
- Oops, I did it again: Speeding on a transit, control is notified and can sent you a warning text to the RallySafe unit. Speeding again... you'll be dealt with. It's like an all-seeing O-Control. (enforcement is, as always, up to the organiser)
- But I had to stop: Got a team looking for a time adjustment because they stopped on stage for a triangle... the system will tell you EXACTLY how long they stopped and where.
- Dude, what did you do on the last stage: Teams can simply go online and check times AS THE OTHER TEAMS FINISH the stage. (during the transit if they have coverage)
- I'm OK mom!: Friends and family can watch the progress from afar. Crew chiefs can actually watch performance and maybe pick up on a big problem coming their way.
- The information backbone for 'live' coverage (twitter, what-ever) that most people are asking for.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2014 12:36PM by Morison.

Wow!! Lots of bennies in the list. This is what needs to be discussed by the actual participants and organizers at some point. What can we expect, what is the cost, what are the problems.

I too have been off the road missing, I've also nearly had another land on top of mine off the road and I've been asked if I had seen car #xxx a couple times over the years. As well as catching cars more than once that wouldn't yield way. So I personally see a few nice features beside the general safety concerns. Interesting.

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heymagic
This is what needs to be discussed by the actual participants and organizers at some point. What can we expect, what is the cost, what are the problems.

And... we've taked with clerks of the course in Australia who have been using the system for years and have talked to several competitors who have used it in the past. (There's even one on these forums. Others include Breandan Reeves adn Rhiannon Gelsomino, and Justin Bayliff)
We know that a temporary install (IOW poor connections) can be a bit unreliable but that permanent installs have been remarkably reliable.

Quote
heymagic
So I personally see a few nice features beside the general safety concerns. Interesting.

Yes, much more than the obvious... it will be interesting to see it in action across the whole field at Rocky.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
NoCoast
Well shit, if it's sponsoring a SAFETY thing, why didn't we have them buy us all Hans devices?

Can they buy my roll cage too?

---

I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI

Quote
czwalga
Anders, what was determined as the reason the system didn't work out for you at LSPR?

No idea. I don't know if any analysis was done. All I could say regarding a cause is no one in the med sweep truck was asked for any details during or after, and no details were provided to us during or after. Not that I would expect it, really. So far, nothing has been sent to the event chair/organizer either.

So I can't really say. Zero info provided.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Quote
heymagic
Wow!! Lots of bennies in the list. This is what needs to be discussed by the actual participants and organizers at some point. What can we expect, what is the cost, what are the problems.

I too have been off the road missing, I've also nearly had another land on top of mine off the road and I've been asked if I had seen car #xxx a couple times over the years. As well as catching cars more than once that wouldn't yield way. So I personally see a few nice features beside the general safety concerns. Interesting.

I don't think anyone has argued that there aren't quantifiable benefits to the system. I personally have stated (and will continue to do so) that I don't see it changing anything (like for instance) including cars landing on top of each other, because the assumption is that competitors slow down when there is a triangle which we are well aware is false for a large majority of them, I don't see how this changes unless the system logs how fast you are going when a warning is sent to you.

And finally, at the end of the day, there is a price point at which rallying simply becomes too expensive and even with unlimited value added by something, raising the price puts it out of reach of some people. That is something that is not considered (it seems) sometimes by the powers that be; there becomes a finite, defined limit where the costs are not justified, no matter how much more you get.

Totally agreed Adam. I'm not sure the beenies are worth the cost, not sure they're not. Not really for me to say. I sure don't want to get caught with it as a requirement until we've looked at ball sides and the cost ..or fallout..of implementing the program. It does seem a neat deal if the cost is set aside. Between the issues we all have with the internet, dropped phone calls, no reception, cars with electronic throttles that won't go 5mph etc I'm cautious to fully entrust something such as this. Often times we have great ideas that tecnology and materials just won't support. Doesn't mean we shouldn't keep pressing forward, just keep the eyes wide open.

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HiTempguy
I don't see how this changes unless the system logs how fast you are going when a warning is sent to you.

It does.
What it also does is give a three tiered warning.
Stopped and OK (aka, no real need to slow down)
Hazard (OK, but it's either tricky or I'm blocking the line)
SOS (Ye shall not pass)

Funny thing is that we were able to watch a large portion of the field go past our off and just about everybody slowed down as soon as they saw the triangle. Maybe not a lot, maybe not enough, but they absolutely lifted. (And we still had probably a half dozen cars drop wheels into the ditch we were in.)

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HiTempguy
That is something that is not considered (it seems) sometimes by the powers that be; there becomes a finite, defined limit where the costs are not justified, no matter how much more you get.

If it really were not considered, we'd be in our second year of running Rally Safe in Canada.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.