I am not an engineer, but I know that I never broke an axle in my rabbit without killing an A-arm first. I ran a near solid engine mount setup in that car. do you engineering types think that had anything to do with saving axles?

I'm thinking about suspending the engine in the bay rather than mounting the engine to the subframe.

something like this:

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-Tom
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I've seen those pics before and me likey, though I'm not an enganeering type. But I think the ability to change the subframe without messing with the engine could be good. I've got some 237 page pdf of some guys doing bodyshell prep on a group A mk2 and they set the side mounts up the same way.I've also got a 75 page pdf with pics of some guys redoing a ex-works mk3 kit car and it has the same thing. I can send you those if you want them. But if they're doing it there must be some reason, yeah?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2008 05:21PM by Carl S.

Tom, not a bad idea, but could be executed a bit nicer.
Pop over sometimes and i can sketch out what I mean.

Mainly using thinner sheetmetal and spreading the load over larger area, coming over the chassi leg and involving the inner fender/bulkhead.
How's you doing with cleaning up the shell?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, not a bad idea, but could be executed a bit
> nicer.
> Pop over sometimes and i can sketch out what I
> mean.
>
> Mainly using thinner sheetmetal and spreading the
> load over larger area, coming over the chassi leg
> and involving the inner fender/bulkhead.
> How's you doing with cleaning up the shell?
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

You can get your self in trouble with that heavy of metal over sheat metal ..It will crack were the heavyer metal ends..And try to end the plates in a < or > .. Less chance to crack..You really should just tac the plates ..Then ask if its right....

David

Hazardous Toys inc





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2008 08:24AM by Haztoys.

I was thinking it was a bit thick too....what about the plug welding going on up there?

I'll be by soon to chat, you can see our golf III shell is for sale, no worries at all.

BTW: these are ideas I am mulling over for the next car, not something I personally have done....I think Forrest Duplessis did the above work.

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-Tom
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Well seeing as this is the next project to tackle once the driver's side seat frame is in.......

I'm running the same scenario through my head....

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-Jason

Would 2 mounts in this config be enough? this is similar to how the focus motor is mounted and they have a third mount that goes from the transmission case to the subframe to control engine roll. Would the front VW mount be enough or would you need the rear one as well?

IIRC, Duplessis' car has a third mount in the rear. I can't remember whether it goes to the chassis or crossmember, but I think its primary purpose was as an anti-torque bar. I.e. it wasn't particularly load-carrying. He doesn't run with a front mount at all.

I can't remember tho - I haven't seen his car in nearly a year.

Seems like it'd make sense to run it to the chassis. Then you could change crossmembers (and therefore steering racks) pretty damn quickly.

Now that I think about it, I suspect that if I were doing all that rearranging on my car I'd also do something about nailing down the crossmember capture nuts better too.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

hoche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IIRC, Duplessis' car has a third mount in the
> rear. I can't remember whether it goes to the
> chassis or crossmember, but I think its primary
> purpose was as an anti-torque bar. I.e. it wasn't
> particularly load-carrying. He doesn't run with a
> front mount at all.
>
> I can't remember tho - I haven't seen his car in
> nearly a year.
>
> Seems like it'd make sense to run it to the
> chassis. Then you could change crossmembers (and
> therefore steering racks) pretty damn quickly.
>
> Now that I think about it, I suspect that if I
> were doing all that rearranging on my car I'd also
> do something about nailing down the crossmember
> capture nuts better too.


I was planning on running something in the back as well...something stiff to hopefully take care of any potential axle breaking engine movement, not sure if it will hook up to the firewall or not, but definitely NOT to the subframe.

ALL capture nuts are on my list.

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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If you're getting rid of the capture nuts, make sure your measurements are spot on...... or putting the subframe back in is a little scary the first time through.

Don't ask me how I know

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-Jason

how did you get rid of yours Jason, SHARE!!!!!

I was just going to fully weld them in....

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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My file server went down a week ago so I don't have any pics at the moment. I'm going to get it back up.

I used a hole saw to drill out the captured nuts. Then ran a section of 3/4" thick walled tubing up through the hole and out through the top of the frame. Put a plate on the top and bottom and welded it all up so its in double shear. Tapped the tubing for the bolts.

It actually worked out very well. It bolted in relatively easy (except when the rear mount on one of the a arms fell out and I thought I put the tubing in the wrong spot!)

I'll get some pictures up tomorrow.

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-Jason

So, I haven't crawled under the car or anything to look, but I was thinking about this today. I wonder...

If the engine's not mounted on the crossmember at all, the xmember basically becomes three things:

1) a frame stiffener
2) a place to mount the steering rack
3) sort of a rear skidplate, to protect the shift linkage and cat

If you go to an O2A, you don't need it to protect the shift linkage, and get other benefits like not having to clean the crud out of the linkage every event and being able to move the linkage up nearer the steering wheel in the car.

So then...why does the xmember need to be so precisely mounted? Maybe you can weld down the capture nuts and enlargen the holes on the xmember. If it's off a little bit, all it'll affect is the car's alignment, which you'd have to readjust after changing it anyway...

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Doesnt the crossmember on the golf locate the front A arms? Do they not bolt onto the ends?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Crap welds made by hand 'pulsing' with GMAW - look a the craters stuck in each 'pretty' bead