Welded diff's

I can't remember ever seeing chlorinated brake cleaner locally, maybe it's a regional thing? (like, banned here)

I started paying attention in around 1998 after reading a tech article that recommended CHLORINATED brake clean for de-scunging a radiator before soldering on it!

Everything, repeat, everything I see is non-chlorinated. And, I've been using it for my entire history of welding to clean with.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Yikes...

Phosgene...

You can still get both 'round these parts.
Red can = chlorinated, Green can = non, at my local parts store

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easy to be hard, hard to be smart
Jv

just to be clear and certain, what are we supposed to clean parts with before welding?

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TV and Beer! What could be better?
http://weregonnahaveatvparty.blogspot.com/

joshm Wrote:
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> just to be clear and certain, what are we supposed
> to clean parts with before welding?


Lick 'em clean....

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

joshm Wrote:
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> just to be clear and certain, what are we supposed
> to clean parts with before welding?


Preferably something that doesn't make poisonous gas when burned.

So that's why it was so rank when we were spraying brake clean into the kerosene jet heater in my 1.5 car garage a few winters ago... You know, you can completely melt an aluminum can on those things too.

Note: Not the garage, and not the heater, but okay.

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Grant Hughes

So what's the difference in handling charecteristics on gravel and street (FWD and RWD) in a car with a welded diff vs. LSD?

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Ben Hetland
1973 Volvo 142 project car (with some cone-smashing on dirt in it's future, however)

"No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
-Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)

www.utahrallygroup.com

yeah that. Still trying to decide which diff to put back there first, the soon to be welded one, ot the Torsen?

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Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

1fastben Wrote:
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> So what's the difference in handling
> charecteristics on gravel and street (FWD and
> RWD) in a car with a welded diff vs. LSD?
>
>

In both cases you will tend to get a bit more initial push with a welded diff, especially in slow corners. But that's easily compensated for. You just have to trust that the grip will be there (it will) and commit. The welded diff will always be 100% consistent, though. It wll always respond the same, whereas a LSD (depending on the type of unit, some more than others) can sometimes act a little funny. A welded diff never needs rebuilding, either. A properly set up clutch type LSD (meaning fairly strong break away) will not feel much different than a welded diff on gravel, though the LSD should have a little smoother handling.

Jay Wrote:
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> yeah that. Still trying to decide which diff to
> put back there first, the soon to be welded one,
> ot the Torsen?
>
>

Torsen is not the best choice for gravel or if you will have wheels leaving the ground from time to time. A Torsen needs all the wheels to be on the ground to work. If you bust an axle it will act like an open diff.

Hmm. So maybe I better pull the fancybutt Torsen outta there and get the open one welded up and put that in instead. I despise understeer but it's sorta sounding like I just need to continue to drive it like I hate it and it'll behave like I want it to.

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Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

I'd echo Dave's comments.

Basically you'll see a bit of corner entry understeer, especially on slow stuff. On high speed stuff, I doubt you can even notice. It is more pronounced (in my opinion) on a FWD car than an RWD. Either way, on gravel it is pretty easy to deal with.

And like Dave says it is pretty consistent. In FWD if you point it in a direction and hit the gas, the car is only going to go in that direction.

Downside to most other mechanical differentials is that, except the clutch-pack style ones, it isn't going to perform well if one side is unloaded and it won't work at all if an axle breaks. Even the clutch units I've used haven't been preloaded enough to work with only one axle.

If you're building an all-out rally or race car, a spool or welded diff isn't a bad way to go. If you want to drive it on the street a clutch-type is a decent compromise. If you're driving ONLY on the street, the helical/gear type diff is a good choice because it requires little maintenance and works pretty well.

Interesting thread. I might just do this to the rear diff on the Gaylant.

Is discussion on a welded center diff/transfer case relevant here?

Gaylant has a transverse mounted lump with a viscous center diff (VCD) integrated into the transmission just before the tcase. I've been toying with the idea of losing the front axles, replacing the VCD with a spool, and trying the car in RWD trim for simplicity, circumvention of a restrictor, possible cash prizes in Max Attack, and more fun.

Just curious if anyone had related info on welding VCDs and/or transfer cases if it was relevant. Thanks.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

DR1665 Wrote:
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> Interesting thread. I might just do this to the
> rear diff on the Gaylant.
>
> Is discussion on a welded center diff/transfer
> case relevant here?
>
> Gaylant has a transverse mounted lump with a
> viscous center diff (VCD) integrated into the
> transmission just before the tcase. I've been
> toying with the idea of losing the front axles,
> replacing the VCD with a spool, and trying the car
> in RWD trim for simplicity, circumvention of a
> restrictor, possible cash prizes in Max Attack,
> and more fun.
>
> Just curious if anyone had related info on welding
> VCDs and/or transfer cases if it was relevant.
> Thanks.


I did do this in 2001 on the Subaru Canada PGT cars because at the time the WRX was very new and the STi viscous center diffs weren't available yet for the new trannies. We only ran one event with the welded center diffs before the STi units arrived, though. It was a bit of a mess, I removed all the plates and silicone goo and welded up the gears and the case to make it a solid unit. It's not something you would want to drive around on pavement much but it was better than the stock, practically open viscous center diff on gravel.