Smarts don't tip over. Not any more than any other rallied car. It's a classic case of visual mass vs. actual mass. Do a youtube search for hayabusa smart and see what kind of crazy forces those guys are putting on a smart, on tarmac, and no flip, no roll, not even a cocked rear wheel.

Of course the wheelbase is a "bit" short.

gemorris Wrote:
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> Smarts don't tip over. Not any more than any
> other rallied car. It's a classic case of visual
> mass vs. actual mass. Do a youtube search for
> hayabusa smart and see what kind of crazy forces
> those guys are putting on a smart, on tarmac, and
> no flip, no roll, not even a cocked rear wheel.
>
> Of course the wheelbase is a "bit" short.


No, but see this Top Gear evaluation of the Smart, Prius, and some car we don't get over here:

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

What about the Saturn (aka Opel) Astra?

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

What about a Toyota Yaris hatch back. The comare favorably to a MkII VW. wheel bas is only less than 1/2" shorter 96.9" vs. 97.3". Same basic suspension design. And the curb weight is only 90 lbs heavier than a 2-door golf and is 50 lbs lighter than a 4-door Jetta.

If you want a longer well base you can get the sedan which gets you a 100.3 inches while only adding 3lbs.

Power is a little anemic but Toyota has lots of motor to choose from.


I also like the Saturn Astra listed above.

If the Yaris is anything like the Echo, the VW suspension bits are about twice as beefy stock vs. stock. You'd have your work cut out for you.

Of course it can be done, and there aren't too many options for new cars... but yick.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Honestly, if I were to consider any new car for 2WD rally I would build a Chevy Aveo. Because, if I were building a new car, that would have to imply that my budget level or support level can support to maintain and run a new car and thus, much of the Aveo stuff would disappear and some select Suzuki Swift + JWRC parts would replace it. But I have a slightly different opinion about building and racing a rally car than most people apparently.

---

Grant Hughes

You know, in reality if you can afford to build a new car and want to be a winner in 2WD, why bother with US shit and all that time and money to build something? Sweet used 2WD cars exist for sale in Europe. See those Evo 7 and earlier in rally in the US? Those were all imported somehow, so it obviously can be done. If you can afford to buy a post $10K car and build it properly, you would save money just buying something good from overseas.

A BMW E36 M3 with good gearbox, diff, and rally suspension from Finland.
A F2000 car off of rallycarsforsale.net from mainland Europe.
A used Super 1600 car.
A Honda Civic Type R Group N car from Finland.
etc.

But in the USA, the people with money that could be doing that, choose instead to build Subaru's and then subsequently fall out of rally when they realize that their huge investment will never result in them winning consistently and deep down we all want to win.

---

Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2007 05:26PM by NoCoast.

Yaris would definetly rock. In fact i considered/wanted to purchase one with future plans on rallying it but the wife did not like the car's interior very much. I on the other hand was impressed. 12 thousand bucks brand new with toyota reliability? how could you go wrong? It is also one of the few affordable cars you can race at international events like WRC mexico since it does have a FIA homologation...

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Grant,

Here is a different way of looking at the new cars worth rallying question. What car could you buy today as a reliable daily driver keep it for a couple of years with an eye to making it a rally car when the warranty expiries or you pay it off, etc.

I agree if you want to go out and win today you are better off trying to import a car with a proven pedigree that is already prepared to race.

Who da fawk buys new cars?
My "newest" is my 88 Chev Diesel van with manual trans!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The yaris really is a dead end. The engine is shit for performance and there is NO ROOM UNDER THE DAMN HOOD OK.

Aveo has nothing to do with the swift, Aveo is a daewoo.

Mazda3/upcoming volvo c30 (same chassis, all about flava of motor and 2dr v. 4dr)
Civic Si

Anyone else have any serious suggestions?

gemorris Wrote:
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> Aveo has nothing to do with the swift, Aveo is a
> daewoo.

No. Aveo is a Swift. Both are built in the now owned by GM, but formerly Daewoo factory in Korea.

Here's a quote...
Canadian Driver magazine,
'The Chevrolet Aveo and the Suzuki Swift are effectively the same car. They're both built at the former Daewoo factory in Korea and are a sub-compact class of vehicle.'

But, it's also a Daewoo Kalos, and I was incorrect in the thought that the North American Swift was similar to the Japanese/European one, which it is not.

Regardless, the Sprongl's have already demonstrated what could be done with the North American/Canadian Swift+, which is the same as the Chevy Aveo. Imagine if they hadn't been hampered by Production class.

There's an E36 BMW on rallycarsforsale.net though right now too.

---

Grant Hughes

Sorry, I just knew that the Aveo was not the Euro Swift, which by all accounts is an awesome car.

Also a VW fox would be fun if we had it here.

gemorris Wrote:
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> Also a VW fox would be fun if we had it here.

Only if it looked like this one


If there was any current vw worth rallying that falls into the "if we had it here" category it'd be the polo. S1600 or S2000 version