Omni GLH Turbo Rallymobile

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scott Manley Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The great thing about the dodge cars is the
> FI is
> > already hacked and easy to program. And it's
> > speed/density.
> >
> > Scott Manley
> > Spokane, WA
> > 86' XR4Ti
> > 32
>
> Scott, the whole point with these things is they
> need nothing and if you do nothing its as reliable
> as a stone ax and extreeeeeeeeeeemly easy to drive
> fast.
>
> Exhaust, brakes, suspenders, go.
>
> maybe an oil cooler.
Hey I was only mentioning it cause stock those cars run so damn rich, more fuel doesn't me more reliability. You can really tune those cars nice and safe. Unlike Ford POS FI.

---

Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

UPDATE: 11-25-07

Well i got the bottom end and transmission mated together with the assitance of my friend. Mostly for just keeping everything together and test fitting. But i have to take it back apart since my retarded ass forget to put the torque plate / dirt keeper-outer inbetween. *doh*



Also started working on the chassis itself. Pete Remmer came out and lent a hand with it. Started grinding at the seams to remove some paint then we just kinda realized my welder did a far job of burning off paint. Finish some seam welding. TONS more needs to be done, but the spoll ran out so we started focusing on the interior removal.















Initiailly, while Pete was welding away and setting fires, i started to look into the rust on floorboards. Well i found this:



Then after the welding stopped we went to town and this is the end result. Hmm....so yea floorboards....





But ill be doing some good reinforcement welding now along it all too. Its nothing really structural. Just a pain in my ass.

But thanks to the mound of interior we removed, the car has a nice high stature.

---

~A.M.S.

"Some people are afraid of heights, not me. I'm afraid of widths"

As bad as those floors and bits of firewall look the rest of the car is really solid and clean.

Ten pound spools!

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Rust? In an Ohio/MI car?? Imagine that......

Just make sure to check out the rockers/sills really good. And plan sill bars in the cage!!

Looking forward to seeing this beast out there on some stages!!

Regards,
Mark B.

Are sill bars FIA 25345246345735234764562343255457354234 compliant for a RA logbook? I haven't looked.

Just a reminder to read the crap out of the rulebook of whatever sanctioning body you're going for.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Yea, confusing. R-A required them and now with FIA 253 being adopted, are they now not required for an new R-A logbook???

NASA will be requiring them to be added to all non-homologated cages. A pain, but they sure make sense.

Regards,
Mark B.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As bad as those floors and bits of firewall look
> the rest of the car is really solid and clean.
>
> Ten pound spools!
>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
>
> 1984 RX-7 reshell
> 1978


Man, you guys have got real low stanards out there in salty road land! That thing's a donor car. All Omni/Horizon shells are the same 1981 and newer so I would strongly suggest finding something more solid to start with. That thing will never be as strong as a non-rusty car no matter what you do to it.

Most L-bodies rusted away ten-twenty years ago, so it'd mean having to drive really far. I'm sold on the idea of driving really far (now) but in this case the rust really this is minor. It's major in damage but it's minor in extent. It's like the car was garaged and never driven in the winter but the windshield seal leaked or something and it rusted out the edge of the firewall, and the nice thick carpet padding held the rest. Kind of like how 240Zs rust from the inside out. (The body panel edges on the underside of the car aren't even colored with rust)

Plus, it's a Columbus car. Things don't rust in Columbus, their idea of a heavy snow is when the grass *and* the pavement are white.

I'll let Alex tell the story of the 57k mile parts car Horizon he picked up. It does look beautiful, from the outside. My mind wants to see it converted to RWD...

If you want low standards, you shoulda seen some of the junk I've driven. I do try to junk them about the same time the seatbelts fall out. But you remind me that I desperately need to go scrounging up your "parts cars" and trucking them here to sell as "rub with diaper" cars...

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

yea, i should get pictures of the Horizon i aquired.

Story time:

So the this guy brings in his daughter's car they just bought. Got it for 1400 dollars (holy rip-off batman) and had been driving it for roughly 4 weeks. Anywho, they were bringing it in because the axle broke. Okay fine. Its an 88 with 57,000 on it. The exterior is actually kinda decent. So im putting it on the lift and get in the air.

Start looking at the axle. It didnt break. The CV pull apart.....? So im looking at it for a moment baffled how the hell a good linear tension force was applied to an axle and then i notice that a very important boxed part of the K-member that connects to the chassis was COMPLETELY, as in i can run my hand through the middle of the entire thing like a magician, rusted away.

So bad i could move the hub assembly ALL over the place. So theres the reason for the broken axle...

Then looking at the rear, the portion of the beam that connects to the chassis on the same side as the broken axle was rotten out to the point where JUST the edges of the box where left..... eek!!!

This girl was DRIVING it on the FREEWAY. I could probably kick it hard enough to fold a wheel.

so we called them, they came up and looked at it. Junkyard told them they would give em 100 dollars for it. So i told them i give them the 100 and keep it. The motor is actually in great shape but i really dont have a need for a 2.2 non turbo motor. But it has 57,000 on it!!! So ill sell it or something

all the glass it great, the body panels are pretty much rust free. THE FLOORBOARDS ARE WAY BETTER. So ill be cutting it up for metal too. But for whatever reason those two suspension pieces disolved while everything else what decent.

that said, the chassis is still not good enough to warrent swapping over shells. But it should be good enough to let me fill in any gaps and have some parts to hoard.

---

~A.M.S.

"Some people are afraid of heights, not me. I'm afraid of widths"

Wait, so two years ago RA required silly bars, then this year RA drops the sill bar requirement, and NASA does not require. So I build my car without sill bars thinking I am in the clear. Now NASA will be requiring? When will this start? I just layed down 2 coats of urethane that I really don't want to have to grind through.





edit: I am not one to skimp on safety at all but when I designed the cage I felt confident that due to the high seating position in the car the sill bar would accomplish nothing, which I why I didnt add it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2007 01:04PM by Saabfarm.

Wow. I'm glad I don't live there. You call that minor rust in the blue Omni? I call that major, major, junk the car it's not saveable rust. To me that looks very extensive. Remember, there's gonna be more rust you don't see deep inside the structural members that's harder to fix. Check it out. If not then count yourself lucky, maybe it's salvageable.

Yeah, it's clear you guys have different standards than I. I like the "parts car"/rub with a diaper car comment, Pete. I think it's probably spot on. The last Omni I got someone gave to me. It was a GLH turbo but with no drivetrain and no title. That's not a big deal, you can apply for a lost title. But because of that and the fact that there were some dents in the doors I decided it wasn't worth fixing up so I turned it into a circle track car for the Hornet car class and we've been bashing the shit out of it off and on for the last few years. This is a completely rust free shell, by the way.

P.S.: Just checked the local Craigslist here in Seattle and there's a Horizon with 150,000 miles and a blown head gasket for $200. I guarantee there's no rust. There's another good runner for $500. In Portland there's two runners for $500 or less, one of them with only 108,000 miles. I guarantee none of these cars cars has any rust or if they do it's very little, ie: no holes.
I know it's too far to drive, I just thought I'd taunt you.

Hey Luke,

For R-A, they have adopted FIA 253 rules for new cages. The FIA does not require sill bars (thought there has been rumoirs that it might be). For older cars and cages for R-A, these fall under Appendix 1 of the R-a rules which DO require sill bars.

Under NASA, you have 3 choices:
1. FIA homolageted cages installed as designed
2. Build to full FIA 253 rules ====> therofore 'probably' no sill bars at this time (I need to recheck on the rule intent there), but you need full rear x-brace, roof brace, and A-pillar suport (The last is tough in a Saab 99 per a loooong discussion back and forth with Per.)
3. Build to NASA rules, which will require sill bars as of 7-1-08.

Per 2 serious accidents in the last few years (100 AW in '03 where 2 guys really came close to dying, and Sprongl's in STPR last year), sill bars DO indeed add a lot with a low cost. The 4 person tech committee for NASA that reviewed the rules unanimuously saw sill bars as one of the best things that we could ask people to add, considering the safety added versus cost/effort.

We realize that we are going to have to work with some situations to help folks find a good solution to already installed cages. Please contact your regional NASA techie if this causes some problems. We'll work with folks to get this done with minimal pain. It's not intended to be hassle.

If it's any consolation, I have one car where I have to cut out and re-do the side bars so that sill bars can be added. My consolation is that it will be a significant improvement in side impact safety.

Regards,
Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2007 02:01PM by starion887.

yea yea yea....

when i was visiting my friend out in Colorado i noticed a large margin of older vechiles that are effectively extinct in Ohio. But out here things are WAY different. Hell im starting to see cars from the 2000s with rust spots on them and don't get me started on trucks...

im going to look into the rust before i continue anything else on the car. Probably sunday. I might be fixing to have Pete come out and lend a hand again. Obviously more pictures will follow. But if its salavageable, it will probably wind up being used just from the fact that i don't even see omni/horizons on the road anymore.

---

~A.M.S.

"Some people are afraid of heights, not me. I'm afraid of widths"

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A-pillar suport
> (The last is tough in a Saab 99 per a loooong
> discussion back and forth with Per.)
> 3. Build to NASA rules, which will require sill
> bars as of 7-1-08.
>
>100 AW in '03 where 2 guys really came close to dying

A-pillar support is only required if a certain dimension is less than a certain specified length. As I recall, it's something like the distance from the front leg perpendicular to floor to the plane where the windshield cross bar between the two front half laterals is at, viewed from the side of the car looking in the door is less than 200 mm or something like that.

Just checked, and that's right. I'll attach the pic from 253-15. If A is less than 200 mm (~8" then you don't need the bar. VW bug, Saab 99, and maybe a couple others could get away without it.

The mentioned crash in 02 was also a GTX that was home built and the shell had quite a bit of rust in the GTX, they were using a pretty much minimum cage, and this was way back when they still allowed stock seats. Not arguing about the logic behind sill bars as I have sill bars and an X and many other bars that were thought of for improving safety in side impact situations. There is a pic floating around somewhere of JB's car that shows the extreme level of intrusion from that accident. It was scary. I was shown it just before leaving to enter my first event, 100 Acre Wood 2004.

The 03 crash was a Neon on transit that drifted over and head on'd into a Buick.

---

Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2007 03:02PM by NoCoast.

Yes the a-pillar is very vertical and the measurement Grant mentioned falls right around 8". When Andrew Smith issued my first logbook he said "hell its a SAAB it hardly needs a roll cage, its a tank already" Anyway, some other details on the cage in various stages of construction which was built to FIA 253 regs.