Hey Tim Dazed Driver

Post some piccies and dimesions of the Toilletta Sillycar rear axle you have there, we have another Toyota guy Robert doen in Atlanta in the same boat as you wanting to upgrade.
Need comparison flange to flange dimensions.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I'm actually looking to upgrade the rear axle in my '85 Toiletta as well, but I've got enough projects that it hasn't been brought to the forefront yet. But, if you need to get another person in to help start some manufacturing, let me know.

I ran across these pictures, it would definitely be interesting to have something like that. How do watts links compare to 4-link/panhard in rallying?

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---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

I'm not too sure about the whats link, you'd have to ask in the Europe AE86 forum, thats where the BUILD THREAD for that car is. Its pretty cool.

What axle are you talking about? The 7.5inch celica supra? or the 6.7inch GTS Corolla? Or the 6.3inch SR5 corolla?

What demensions of the celica axle would you like?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I've currently got the stock 6.7inch GTS axle, but I want to change to something stronger. I bought the car with the stock 4AG in it (with about 250K miles), but it came with a fresh rebuilt turbo engine also. The 7.5" celica supra axle is actually what I was thinking of upgrading to.

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---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

Thanks, John for talking to me the other day. I have many Ideas to look at now. I will also try to get some good pictures of the car soon. I will be getting with you on Damper options once I found out what it has currently.

I am really interested in swapping the rear end for something stronger and at least an adjustable lsd. I have some of experience (4 years) working and adjusting drive trains and suspensions on road racing car and am eager to learn more about applying it to rally. However I know I still have a lot to learn. As I talked to john about I would kill to have a Salisbury lsd with adjustable ramps and preload, as that is where I have spend most my time in drive trains. That said I also know it might cost more then I have to play with and only have limit gains, although the rally’s I plan to run are a strong mix of road types.

Tim, I am eager to learn more about your swap as it sounds like a strong rear end and I will be able to measure mine next week.

Thanks for all the help; I look forward to building up this car and learning a lot.


Robert Wilmot

>
> I ran across these pictures, it would definitely
> be interesting to have something like that. How
> do watts links compare to 4-link/panhard in
> rallying?
>
We looked at both the watts linkage and the panhard (and even a mumford linkage) for our 'new '72 Opel rally car, and stuck with the panhard rod.
- Much simpler to fab
- The long bracket hanging down from the car on one side of the watts linkage is a good thing the tear off / damage on a rally.
- If you make the panhard rod 36"+ long, and keep it close to level at static ride height, the total side-to-side movement of the axle is just under 0.3" over 9" suspension travel. This is comparable with the sidewall and bushing deflections, and is minimal versus the sidways sliding of a car on gravel, so I don't expect any adverse steering behavior from this.
- The watts link may make it easier to route the exhaust over the rear axle tunnel, as one side is lower. But we have this solve for our panhard rod setup.

Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2007 09:40AM by starion887.

RALLYBOY990 Wrote:

> I am really interested in swapping the rear end
> for something stronger and at least an adjustable
> lsd. I have some of experience (4 years) working
> and adjusting drive trains and suspensions on road
> racing car and am eager to learn more about
> applying it to rally. However I know I still have
> a lot to learn. As I talked to john about I would
> kill to have a Salisbury lsd with adjustable ramps
> and preload, as that is where I have spend most my
> time in drive trains. That said I also know it
> might cost more then I have to play with and only
> have limit gains, although the rally’s I plan to
> run are a strong mix of road types.
>
Hey Robert,

Just an FYI, we settled on an 8" Toyota 4WD P/U rear axle, early 80's vintage. The gears and parts are cheap and plentiful. 4 pinion LSD easy to get. I looked at the Supra and decided the truck axle had the advanatages. They comes in 2 lengths: early 80's are around 55"; late 80's/Tacoma are around 58" flange to flange; don't have my notes here so am going from memory on the lengths. The 6 bolts axle flanges wil be more work to turn donw to something useful. The axles are really hefty and strong. Whether the LSD is adjustable is another story; I don't have any knowledge there. The need for adjustable LSD's on gravel rallies is of questionable benefit in my mind, and even on tarmac rallies with the extremes of cornering speeds and radii compared to a road course.

Regards,
Mark B.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2007 09:38AM by starion887.

Mark,

Thanks for the idea. I have a friend with a 4wd t100 I might have to check it out more for a weekend. Do you know if it has disk brakes or not ?

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2007 10:40AM by RALLYBOY990.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RALLYBOY990 Wrote:
>
> >
>Whether the LSD is adjustable is
> another story; I don't have any knowledge there.

The preload or "breakaway" torque can be shimmed up, but not superr critical anything from 150 ft/lbs to 250 ft/lbs would be neato-torpedo on a rally car RWD.

> The need for adjustable LSD's on gravel rallies is
> of questionable benefit in my mind, and even on
> tarmac rallies with the extremes of cornering
> speeds and radii compared to a road course.

Agreed, the diff's diffiness isn't so important in RWD, where in front drive, with tight steering and some sorta grip its nice to not have to have muscles like some action hero.

As for the flanges on the rear Mark, the plan on Kevvies car is to carve the whole flange down to axle base diameter (approx) and send it to Moser engineering to be splined on the OD to the same spline as what the hideous fwd mid 90s VOLVOs
used as a FRONT "bearing carrier/hub" assembly.
It comes with a 4 bolt flange and bolts onto their front knuckle.
Hey presto!!!! You gots youself a full floating hub.

Now the Volvo hubs are 5 on 4.25" bolt circle, but if'n I haint mistaken (and I's knows I haint) Volvo did use 4 on 4.25 for the first couple of years---I know this cause that's Ford and I checked out the wheels years ago.

Now if the did the same "one part bearing carrier and hub assembly" thing on those early cars _----and I have no idea when they started with their horrible FWD junk, then THAT flange would be easy to clock over and give Mark his 4 on 100mm or Robert a Toiletta's 4 on 4 1/2" bolt circles.

I have the 5 bolt assembly downstairs soi i can try and post a piccie.
All you'd need on the axle itself is a simple flat flange with 4 thru holes as the threads are in the hub assembly.
It could hardly be easier.

Discs and brackets would be whereever they fall.

Is this clear at all?
It was all figured out during one ciggie break while Kevvi was in a Seventy-leven getting some sodie pop he needs, but it's working so far.
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Dec 6, 2007 by
> starion887.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

No THAT sounds lika capital idea! I'm sitting here thinking it over. A picture of this part would be nice.

Have not figured out how this becomes a floating axle though; the bearing would still be on the axle, not in the housing, and I can't see any provisions for retaining the axle with bolts like regular truck floater.

Thanks,
Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No THAT sounds lika capital idea!
Indoubtably



I'm sitting here
> thinking it over.

Yeah well i sitting here stinkin it over too.



A picture of this part would be
> nice.

Howza zis?


Answer the 4 bolt question duddnit?
>
> Have not figured out how this becomes a floating
> axle though; the bearing would still be on the
> axle, not in the housing, and I can't see any
> provisions for retaining the axle with bolts like
> regular truck floater.

'Struth is I may be calling it wrong, look at the piccie and itall becomes clear.

But whaddever it is really called this sure simplfies the modding process.


>
> Thanks,
> Mark B.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

This is making sense if the 'Rear view' is the side that the wheel & rotor bolt to. Not a direct fit on the Toyota 8" P/U rear; the axle flange holes on that axle are spaced equally around the periphery, not in a rectangular pattern like this part. So an adapater would be needed, but that might be good to get the desired flange-to-flange width. And this would indeed be a floating axle.

The turned down P/U flange is looking easier right now: keep the stock Toy bearling/seal parts, and just machine the 6 bolt flange and probably an adapter to set the track width. But this thing is intriguing.

Thanks,
Mark B.

The 7.5 rear end is 55.5 inches from flange to flange. Its also a 4x4.5 bolt pattern. Its LSD and disc brake equipped. The brakes are 10.125 diameter discs. I have no idea what size the single pot calipers are, as i really dont care, haha. Im replacing them anyway.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

here's a picture of it...

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.