T5 identification chart

Vorpal_Rally Wrote:

>
> John,
>
> I will send you a bellhousing, but which one? A
> Volvo stick bell housing? A T5 Chevy one?

We're adapting the Chevy box to the Volvo bellhousing so i need Volvo bits to modify.

The fleeting thought I had when I read your thing, in some horrible distopia, post apocalypse world that somehow i would get confused (radiation sickness) and mod 25 Chevy V8 Bellhousings for bolting up the crappy Volvo box to
OOOOOoooohh Noooooooo!!!


>
>
> menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la mort!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

If it has not been mentioned before, here is .80 5th gear set for the Ford T-5's; I am going to use the Ford T5, a 2.95 gearset, and this 5th gear set to get a 5-gear 'fairly' close ratio box. (With an S10 rear housing to get the shifter in the right place!)

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/s80.html

One quote from this webpage for GM T5 users says that you can subsitute a Ford mainshaft in the GM trannie to use this .80 gearset. I assume this means the main gearset splines on the mainshafts are the same for GM and Ford, unlike the 5th gear splines like Grant pointed out.

I have not yet contacted this company to see if these are still avialable.

Regards,
Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it has not been mentioned before, here is .80
> 5th gear set for the Ford T-5's; I am going to use
> the Ford T5, a 2.95 gearset, and this 5th gear set
> to get a 5-gear 'fairly' close ratio box. (With an
> S10 rear housing to get the shifter in the right
> place!)
>
>
>
> One quote from this webpage for GM T5 users says
> that you can subsitute a Ford mainshaft in the GM
> trannie to use this .80 gearset. I assume this
> means the main gearset splines on the mainshafts
> are the same for GM and Ford, unlike the 5th gear
> splines like Grant pointed out.
>
> I have not yet contacted this company to see if
> these are still avialable.

Hey Mark.
I think that in the Oldpile project you're intending to have some normal aspirated 2,0 engine and I'm guessing you're going to have some normal aspirated appropriate final drive ratio, as in SHORT.

With all these 2300 turbos in the Xartties and Volvos, I don't think we'll see anybody using shorter than 4.3:1 and if'n the boy rev 4th to 7000, that's more than 110 mph, closer to 118.

So I'm saying the 5th is realistically just for transits or for cruising the 100-130 miles over to the prairies of Eastern Washington for playing---since nobody can afford the events any longher.
So really the Ford .62 or the Chev .73 are both very useful for those long cruises.

>
> Regards,
> Mark B.

And I see over on the SS.com site you telling Rallyboy that a little pickup is the best choice of a dual purpose car from street driving and playing.

I say sure if you don't care about ever going fast with it.
Aside from Bill Holmes, nobody has done sweet fawk all with pickups BECAUSE THEY HANDLE LIKE TRUCKS, and any half competent person can turn and accellerate away from corners better.

I think it verging on outrageous that anybody would advise a newb that a truck is a sensible idea.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ok,

Volvo BH got it, just a question, but all of this talk of ratios and such, why not just change the ring and pinion in the diff? Is it that difficult? Surely a recce would let you know what to expect in terms of long straights where a different final drive ratio would work better. Just a thought.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

Vorpal_Rally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok,
>
> Volvo BH got it, just a question, but all of this
> talk of ratios and such, why not just change the
> ring and pinion in the diff? Is it that difficult?
> Surely a recce would let you know what to expect
> in terms of long straights where a different final
> drive ratio would work better. Just a thought.


We need to talk on the telephone.
Call me 206 431 9696.
>
> menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la mort!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Hey JVL:

You should point out again in this thread that the input shaft length is different between a Ford and GM WC T-5 and that you guys are setup for the longer GM. Have you engineered something for the shorter Ford, yet?

I also recently saw another Volvo T5 adapter that has patterns for either the T5 or the TKO, if you want to get stupid crazy with the box bolt up.

To the other thread:

John Parker is a bit slow, but welcome to the land of 240 aftermarket, LOL! Even Sellholm can take weeks (especially when they're on vacation). If you bug Parker and tell him that you have a race on a certain upcoming day, he'll snap to getting the parts to you. Since I think he still races, he can identify with that. That was my experience.

...Brian...

OK, what is the best time to call?

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

Vorpal_Rally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, what is the best time to call?
Try about 6PM Pacific time.
>
> menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la mort!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ah now I get it..

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Hey Mark.
> I think that in the Oldpile project you're
> intending to have some normal aspirated 2,0 engine
> and I'm guessing you're going to have some normal
> aspirated appropriate final drive ratio, as in
> SHORT.
>
> With all these 2300 turbos in the Xartties and
> Volvos, I don't think we'll see anybody using
> shorter than 4.3:1 and if'n the boy rev 4th to
> 7000, that's more than 110 mph, closer to 118.
>
> So I'm saying the 5th is realistically just for
> transits or for cruising the 100-130 miles over
> to the prairies of Eastern Washington for
> playing---since nobody can afford the events any
> longher.
> So really the Ford .62 or the Chev .73 are both
> very useful for those long cruises.

Good point, and your right on the Opel gear; I'm starting with 4.56 and wondering if I should go higher! I suffered too many years with the very bad 2-3 shift step in the stock 70's Opel gerabox to not pay a lot of attention to keeping the steps tight and in decreasing % increments!

>
> And I see over on the SS.com site you telling
> Rallyboy that a little pickup is the best choice
> of a dual purpose car from street driving and
> playing.
>
> I say sure if you don't care about ever going fast
> with it.
> Aside from Bill Holmes, nobody has done sweet fawk
> all with pickups BECAUSE THEY HANDLE LIKE TRUCKS,
> and any half competent person can turn and
> accellerate away from corners better.
>
> I think it verging on outrageous that anybody
> would advise a newb that a truck is a sensible
> idea.
>
Well part of that was to be encouraaging to Jonathan.

Lessee, Biil H. does well in a P/U. As did Ken Stewart in his supercharged Blazer. And there was Guys Light's CJ5. There was a C10 Chevy shortbed out here in the east that ran OK. The spectaotrs ususally love to see a good truck, at least out here. And for Jonathan and a couple of other folks out here who don't have a lot of $$ for a rally vehicle, the small trucks offer a lot of bang for the buck. So I really can't agree. But then again, I recommend the early 90's Nissan SE-R too......
Maybe I empahzise too much to try to rally on a budget with a simply modded vehicle for folks who are not that into heavily modded cars, like many of the talented folks here are good at building. Possibly the right operaative word for small trucks is "cheap"???

Regards,
Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lessee, Biil H. does well in a P/U.

Bill Holmes is not a beginner, and Bill's trucks aren't CHEAP



As did Ken
> Stewart in his supercharged Blazer. And there was
> Guys Light's CJ5. There was a C10 Chevy shortbed
> out here in the east that ran OK.

OK, against what for competition?
MOST trucks were always SLOW, and seriously, pitiful to watch.


The spectaotrs
> ususally love to see a good truck, at least out
> here.

Yeah, I agree, folks LOVED Bill Holmes truck with Bill driving it.
But truth is it was only margianlly faster than say some ol Ford V4 powered thing costing 1/10 what his truck cost.


And for Jonathan and a couple of other folks
> out here who don't have a lot of $$ for a rally
> vehicle, the small trucks offer a lot of bang for
> the buck.

Well that is until they really get the perv twitch going.



So I really can't agree. But then again,
> I recommend the early 90's Nissan SE-R too......
> Maybe I empahzise too much to try to rally on a
> budget with a simply modded vehicle for folks who
> are not that into heavily modded cars, like many
> of the talented folks here are good at building.

Well maybe I assume too much that most guys are going to follow the exact same path that about 98% of all the guys I've seen come into the sport have done.

They all eventually want to make RESULTS, and if they were lucky, their INITIAL CHOICE of vehicle, the one they spent all those same FIXED COSTS on, you know the cage, the suspension, the strengthening, the skid plate etc, the INITIAL CHOICE didn't leave them in some thing staring at a dead end.

Ask Jake Himes sometimes (Rest in Peace my ol friend) what the Sentra got sold for and he'd tell you it was because there was no way he could move up to anything better in the gearbox, final drive, and limited slip. He had hit the dead end with the cheap car.
It did him alright to start off with but! the only way to move up was to take a loss, sell the whole car, and find a car he could upgrade box and rear end.





> Possibly the right operaative word for small
> trucks is "cheap"???

Only as long as a person will always be happy with something that is inhereantly ill suited and ultimately a big limitation to really driving BETTER and more competitively as the driver improves with experience .

And when a truck is sold at a huge loss, and a guy continues and buys ANOTHER CAR, then that illusory advantage is shown to be a dis-advantage.
Cause you always lose when you sell.


>
> Regards,
> Mark B.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

You know John.. I've been doing some thinking (I know scary) and what I've been thinking about is that what would really kick start things would be some mass produced "fixed" shells complete with roll cages. What I'm thinking is if you made a new floor pan with all the suspension fixins and roll cage separate and then took the rest of a shell and welded it up. Add a mass produced suspension solution and cheap jy motor that works etc and you could really lower costs.

Because as far as I know, there is really no car that you can add a cage to and have serious fun with out of the box. They all need this and that and this and that.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

> Well maybe I assume too much that most guys are
> going to follow the exact same path that about 98%
> of all the guys I've seen come into the sport have
> done.
>
> They all eventually want to make RESULTS, and if
> they were lucky, their INITIAL CHOICE of vehicle,
> the one they spent all those same FIXED COSTS on,
> you know the cage, the suspension, the
> strengthening, the skid plate etc, the INITIAL
> CHOICE didn't leave them in some thing staring at
> a dead end.
>
> Ask Jake Himes sometimes (Rest in Peace my ol
> friend) what the Sentra got sold for and he'd tell
> you it was because there was no way he could move
> up to anything better in the gearbox, final drive,
> and limited slip. He had hit the dead end with the
> cheap car.
> It did him alright to start off with but! the only
> way to move up was to take a loss, sell the whole
> car, and find a car he could upgrade box and rear
> end.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Possibly the right operaative word for small
> > trucks is "cheap"???
>
> Only as long as a person will always be happy with
> something that is inhereantly ill suited and
> ultimately a big limitation to really driving
> BETTER and more competitively as the driver
> improves with experience .
>
> And when a truck is sold at a huge loss, and a guy
> continues and buys ANOTHER CAR, then that illusory
> advantage is shown to be a dis-advantage.
> Cause you always lose when you sell.
>
One needs to include the other sceanrios:
- The truck is so cheap to build/run that you pull out the seats and belts (if they have not expired) and go to something else, and don't worry about the $$. I expect this to be the case in many instances, 'specially for a cheaply sourced truck like Jonathan is getting, and with a cage costing just the materials if done in one's shop.
- The money is invested in the super-upgradable car, and then is wrecked within a few events, and no money is left to fix it.
- The money is invested in the super-upgradable car, and then is wrecked within a few events, and it burns and all those seats and belts and nice struts are crispy fired, and wasted.
- The person could get in for cheap and enjoy some rallies before getting married and having the kids and mortgage them them out of rally for a long time or forever. In this case, the money needed to build/buy that good first car is never avialable; it's a case of better being the enemy of good-enough.

And ask Gus Garrido what he thinks of his SE-R.

There are all sorts of variables in people's preferences, money, inclinations, etc., that any one-size-fits-all solution is illusory. 98% of all new ralliers don't folow the path you describe. And a lot of times, many need a good cheap learning path, not just for driving, but for developing maintenance and build skills. The money is well spent if you stay in this sport for a while.

Regards,
Mark B.

> One needs to include the other sceanrios:
> - The truck is so cheap to build/run that you pull
> out the seats and belts (if they have not expired)
> and go to something else, and don't worry about
> the $$. I expect this to be the case in many
> instances, 'specially for a cheaply sourced truck
> like Jonathan is getting, and with a cage costing
> just the materials if done in one's shop.
> - The money is invested in the super-upgradable
> car, and then is wrecked within a few events, and
> no money is left to fix it.
> - The money is invested in the super-upgradable
> car, and then is wrecked within a few events, and
> it burns and all those seats and belts and nice
> struts are crispy fired, and wasted.
> - The person could get in for cheap and enjoy some
> rallies before getting married and having the kids
> and mortgage them them out of rally for a long
> time or forever. In this case, the money needed to
> build/buy that good first car is never avialable;
> it's a case of better being the enemy of
> good-enough.
>
> And ask Gus Garrido what he thinks of his SE-R.
>
> There are all sorts of variables in people's
> preferences, money, inclinations, etc., that any
> one-size-fits-all solution is illusory. 98% of all
> new ralliers don't folow the path you describe.
> And a lot of times, many need a good cheap
> learning path, not just for driving, but for
> developing maintenance and build skills. The money
> is well spent if you stay in this sport for a
> while.
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.

I was considering a truck, and for the right person, a fine choice, given what I perceive some of the limitations to the platform are. Specifically, let's look at the GM S10/S15.

Pro's

Lots of them roaming around and in boneyards, parts should NEVER be an issue
roomy enough cab, so you can be a fairly large person and fit even after a cage
a T5 tranny, a shitload of parts and gearsets so building a bulletproof box should again NEVER be an issue.
Limited slip can be sourced and should bolt in with no modiifcations to the axle or the truck, however a welded diff gets you the same effect.

Cons
Body on frame construction, It will never be as stiff as a unibody car without enough triangulation that your driving a 3 ton Maserati Birdcage wannabe, and yes I know we'll never be good enough to feel the difference, but I'd like to drive something I know is more rigid than a truck.
Speed parts for the 4 banger?????
Forced induction for the 4 banger????
less than optimal weight distribution.

In talking with JVL on the phone last night, he mentioned a couple of different people who in hindsight wished they had built or bought a different car than what they started out with. His point being that they had reached the end as far as development of the car. One of them did buy a different car, and the grin factor rose greatly. The other person is having to perform lots of maintenance in between events, how much fun is that?

Finally, there a lot of people who are running 240's and XR4Ti's. There is a knowledge base that you can draw upon. I'll take that any day of the week, especially as a first time constructor.

Finally I don't have time to do it twice. I do have time to do it right. But, to each his own.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fleeting thought I had when I read your thing,
> in some horrible distopia, post apocalypse world
> that somehow i would get confused (radiation
> sickness) and mod 25 Chevy V8 Bellhousings for
> bolting up the crappy Volvo box to
> OOOOOoooohh Noooooooo!!!

As much as I would like to contribute something useful to this thread, I'm just reading along for future reference. This comment cracked me up, though.

Good reading as always. Nice to be able to relate a bit now, though. It's not entirely furren.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest