Time to rebuild the VW 16v motor

Went to machine shop today. THe owner/machinist said that i definetely need to rebore, need new pistons, and the journals were not in the best shape. Unless i have to i am not going to spend the 540 he asked me on this block. It looks like I will do an longer stroked aba/16v.
Now in search of a clean, runnning 2lt 9a (the one i was rebuilding) or an obd1 aba block out of an 93-94 8v mk3 golf.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Looks like I found a cleaned obd1 aba block. Will pick it up over the weekend.
Here is a pic of the piston that came out of the

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

If that block doesn't work out, I've got a OBDI ABA needing a rebuild sitting in the garage without a purpose

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-Jason

Hey Oscar,

What is the breakdown costs for just the re-bore work and new pistons? Can you post pix of the rod and main journals on the crank? To save cost, I would try to use the crank with new bearings with just a polish job at home if the crank journals were decent looking, and get the block bored and use new pistons. Have you measrued the crank journal diameters with a micrometer? You need to do this. Do you know what the machinist meast by the crank "not being in the best shape"?

I never have built any engine for rallying with used pistons; in fact, I have only done one old truck engine with used pistons and I was a poor college student then. Re-using any pistons is bad economics in most cases. The one you show in the recent photo looks pretty poor to me; you need to show it from the sides (90 degrees from the direction you show) as that is where all the wear occurs. You need to measure accurately with a micrometer in several places up and down the skirts and also the ring grooves have to be 100% clean and then checked for ring groove side clearance to new piston rings. I think you are heading in the wrong direvtion with used pistons.

Regards,
Mark B.

Hey Mark,
At this point it looks like i will be building a higher deck height motor (220 vs 236mm) and will be putting in some new pistons. (Yes, they will be in the 11:1 range since i will end up shelling out the money) The motor will be similar to what Josh has but with a much more inferior fuel injection. The new block i will be getting has forged crank and rods standard.
Most likely will have to put in same amount of money in the new motor but will be paying more for pistons.(Havent been able to locate any factory type/cast)
The breakdown goes like this;
60 for hottanking
200 for borring (JVL said they usually do it for less)
100 for decking if necessary
280 for pistons
50 for cleaning and polishing crank
60 for shaving crank

The first machine shop was asking 100 for hottanking, 300 for boring and he sounded a little too clueless for my liking...

Oscar

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

turoc Wrote:
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> Hey Mark,
> At this point it looks like i will be building a
> higher deck height motor (220 vs 236mm) and will
> be putting in some new pistons. (Yes, they will be
> in the 11:1 range since i will end up shelling out
> the money) The motor will be similar to what Josh
> has but with a much more inferior fuel injection.
> The new block i will be getting has forged crank
> and rods standard.
> Most likely will have to put in same amount of
> money in the new motor but will be paying more for
> pistons.(Havent been able to locate any factory
> type/cast)
> The breakdown goes like this;
> 60 for hottanking
> 200 for borring (JVL said they usually do it for
> less)


Yeah like 100!!

> 100 for decking if necessary

40!
> 280 for pistons

er um a LOT more for custom forged over 500.

> 50 for cleaning and polishing crank
> 60 for shaving crank
>
Shaving?
WTF is that---TRICKS!!???

> The first machine shop was asking 100 for
> hottanking, 300 for boring and he sounded a little
> too clueless for my liking...

>
> Oscar

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

OK, I would:
1) Get the boring and good pistons good rings.
2) Right now, borrow a micrometer, and measure the crank to see if it needs to be turned (shaved?). If it is not worn beyond specs, then I would go ahead and assume it will fit up OK, and get the new bearings, and check the crank to bearing clearance in the new bearings in the block, once it it returned. 9 times out of 10, the crank to bearing clearances will be just fine, and if they are on the high end of the range, that is good anyway. You can certainly clean the crank just fine on the garage floor with pipe cleaners, and do an acceptable crank polish just fine yourself, with a thin leather strap and fine grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.
3) I think I have had maybe one iron block decked ever, for truing the surface. Maybe I have been lucky.
4) The pistons cost is a compromise. IMO, forged is the best, but I have done fine with hypereutectic pistons for low CR and 13-14 lbs boost, but I have not ever tried hypers with a 11:1 CR in a normally aspirated engine. Others can advise you better than I on that.

Regards,
Mark B.

Wiseco sells pistons for VW', you might take a look there. No offense to John, as I am a poor college student, I was able to buy BOTH my cams (from WE and my Forged pistons (from Wiseco) for about 100 more then the custom JE pistons he deals.

Just a thought. Especially nice if your poor



EDITED: I mixeded up numbers, lol

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2008 01:16PM by Dazed_Driver.

So it's not until you replace them the third time that you wish you'd bought the correct ones from the beginning.

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Grant Hughes

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wiseco sells pistons for VW', you might take a
> look there. No offense to John, as I am a poor
> college student, I was able to buy BOTH my cams
> (from WE and my Forged pistons (from Wiseco) for
> about 100 more then the custom JE pistons he
> deals.
>
> Just a thought. Especially nice if your poor

I don't do J&E, I do CP.
And Tim, off the shelf stuff is one thing ie pistons for standard rod length, and whatever compression they decided is popular, and if you're doing standard rod length then OK.
But it doesn't let you mix and match cranks and rods.
That's when you want custom pistons.
I don't recommend them for everybody.

Additionally, there's RETAIL and then there's "Racer" price.

I know a lot better than you about being broke and trying to go racing.
Remember when I was your age I was just short of going overseas for racing a second time. (Not living at home)

I'm very sensitive to cost especially for a new Parent like Ozgur.
>
>
>
> EDITED: I mixeded up numbers, lol
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at May 23, 2008 by
> Dazed_Driver.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Thanks for the heads up Tim but at this point I will be going with JVL no matter what. In the past if I came across a deal like some cams that i missed out on on this site, he told me to get em. (I was waiting for some cams for him to get from Sweden) Since i dont have much experience when it comes to rebuildign a couple of hundred bucks are not gonna make it or break it but the knowledge i am getting or missing out on will. I have bought a few things from him at beyond reasonable prices so far. John thankfully hasnt charged me for all the hours lasting telephone conversations, eventhough we jumped from topic to topic at times
I do like Wisecos as i have sent several sets overseas in the past but a conversation with a CP Representative at SEMA Atlantic City a few years ago convinced me of their quaility. That doesnt necessarily mean Wisecos wont do the job!

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Firstly, There is nothing wrong with Wiseco or Web cams, Grant. Lots of people have been very happy with them. I really dont expect having to change out my pistons a third time for the "right ones" on an NA engine.

Secondly, Sorry John, I forgot they were CP. I also didnt catch he was mix and matching stuff. My bad. Your stuff WOULD be better and make more sense in that application.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firstly, There is nothing wrong with Wiseco or Web
> cams, Grant. Lots of people have been very happy
> with them. I really dont expect having to change
> out my pistons a third time for the "right ones"
> on an NA engine.

I didn't say there was. I just commented that you can replace them three times before you offset the costs. I've had things that I've done just that with. Turbos for example. I can buy six or seven stock turbos for the price of a fancy pants one, so I run the cheap stock ones that work well enough for me, and I'm able to carry multiple spares. All my tools are from Harbor Freight for the same reason. I'm on my second $10 angle grinder in three years. I blew up my $15 90 angle drill recently. But the cordless impact is 6 years and running, the 1/2 chuck drill is still rocking, the heat gun, air hammer, etc. are all still rocking and combined their probably less than a proper cordless impact.
Though engine internals isn't one of the places I'd personally go this route, but I don't particularily like pulling engines and taking them apart and having to buy a bunch of gaskets and etc.

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Grant Hughes

Ohh, ok I gotcha. I understand your reasoning now. Sometimes I hate the internet/text messages (and Im 18.... for 6 more days!!!) cuz you dont get tone of voice...

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Picked up the higher deck motor yesterday along with the head. It looks a whole lot better than the one i had. The had looks pretty good as well. Should have pics soon.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!