1.65" dia, .120 wall tube....

BTW, John, #! thing to do on the Mnata for rallying is to install a remote oil filter mount. The low stock location is just waiting to be karate-chopped off, even on RTN. (I got a good story on that one too.) It's easy as pie: a standard Ford remote filter kit for Ford engines using a good ole' PH8 filter (like a 289/302) is a direct fit to the 1.9L oil filter mount. And the extra quart of oil sure helps the oil stay cool.

Later look for a steel oil pan to replace the cast AL one. (Another rally story THERE....)

Regards,
Mark B.

Thanks Mark! We're doing MOST of the Manta in 1.75/.095, with just probably the door braces and rear "X" in 1.5 Sill bars 1.75 I'm still having a hard time with this new "A-Piller reinforement bar" as far as exactly how it's gonna go in- might need to post up some pics on that.... any pics around of those in a new cage?

I got my hands on a Rallye rearend. probably will weld it up. I know there's probably nice gear sets and all that... but all in good time.

Looks like I'm gonna be bringing the Monza to TN and I'll send you pics of the bars we add ahead of time if that'll help.


Thanks, John

oh, btw that main hoop is tilted a bit forward in that picture....

Yellowhammer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still having
> a hard time with this new "A-Piller reinforement
> bar" as far as exactly how it's gonna go in- might
> need to post up some pics on that.... any pics
> around of those in a new cage?

You probably don't need them! Dimension A looks pretty short in your picture to me. You may be lucky!
From 8.3.2.1.4
It must be fitted on each side of the front rollbar if dimension "A" is greater than 200 mm.

---

Grant Hughes

Looked a little more at your pics. I take it back, you may need it.
But you can be up to 100 mm from the bend at the top.
Give it a little bit of a bend and have it directly intersect the X and go down to the sill bar/windshield junction. Like in this picture. The biggest pain is the angle of the top bar and getting the profile right.

---

Grant Hughes

starion887 Wrote:
It's easy as pie: a
> standard Ford remote filter kit for Ford engines
> using a good ole' PH8 filter (like a 289/302) is a
> direct fit to the 1.9L oil filter mount. And the
> extra quart of oil sure helps the oil stay cool.

Actually Mark, that's an old Wive's tale about more oil staying cooler.
I use PH16 on all my Fords since 1980 and have used a couple of times PH8A.
The oil always reaches the same temp, the additional oil merely lengthens the time before the oil reaches the same temp.
>
> Later look for a steel oil pan to replace the cast
> AL one. (Another rally story THERE....)
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Interesting point John; I guess we saw lower temps 'cuz of the 3' long lines and the exposed, big filter body is acting like a mini-oil cooler. I suppose the oil temp gets set by the cylinder wall tmeps for something.

Thanks,
Mark B.

Yes, on our Manta cage, the horizontal span is much >200 mm (8" so it is needed. But we're going to place this as low down as we can to limit the interference with the door. It still serves the purpose: preventing a collapse of the vertical leg of the A-pillar bar at the lower bend. Also, you can use a single sloped side bar plus sill bar for NRS or FIA rules; not having the upper, forward part of the x can ease the entry and egress. With the single side bar, I would be putting it higher up on the door.

Regards,
Mark B.

The A pillar support needs to be within 4 inches of the top bend and 4 inches of the mount on the floor. You get a lot of possibilities in the angles and what not. Also you can put a 20* bend ( viewed from the front) in that bar to allow for more steering wheel/knuckle room.

Speaking of oil filters..are there any of the Oberg style still being made ?

Hey John,

On the welded rear end, let me share some experience: welded rear diffs tend to push any RWD car in a striaght line; not good in corners. The Opels are no different, and since their rear end suspension behaves better than some cars (like the Colts with the leaf spring rear end suspension), it may actually be worse. I had a welded one in my first Manta, and it was a bad handful for a new rally driver; you had to learn to really throw the car hard sideways into most corners. You don't want to have to be learning to overcome this evilness until you have some decent amount of rally stage time; you have much more important things to be learning. I blame the welded diff as a contributing factor for the STPR 'corner incident' that spelled doom for that first Opel.

Also, the rear axle shafts are thick in the Opel....except right at the splines into the diff. It tapers down a lot, and you will eventually have the exposed splines twisted with a welded diff. I never broke one in 3 events on the first car, but I did find the splines twisted. I never welded the rear afterward, just ran open. It was a bit if a disadvantage, but only in corners with a lot of loose gravel, and the better handling behavior more than made up for it on many stage road surfaces. Acceleration from a start is generally good in this car, due the torque tube's weight transfer to the rear, so the welded diff is not very critical there.

SERIOUSLY: I would avoid welding it for now, and maybe forever, 'specialy for RTN.

If you do go to welded, there are 2 things that I consider a MUST DO to be able to make the car behave better and make it easier to counter the welded diff's occasional evilness. AND, these things are good for the car's handling overall so, they should take proirity over welding the diff.

1) You need to get better F/R rear brake balance in the car; it tends to plow a lot under braking. This is reeeeal easy: put 3/4" (19mm) rear brake cylinders in the car, in place of the stock 16 mm ones. You can use later Chevette ones; they fit nicely with just a bit of filing to move the 2 bolt holes a wee bit in the backing plate. The Opel brake line fitting is metric as opposed to english/'merican on the Chevette cylinder; they are close, but better to change to the english fittings. The rear drums are very adequate for now for rally braking; we never had any issues with them; just use a good heavy duty lining; we used to use what was called police-duty linings.

2) Upgrade the rear sway bar to what used to be the heavy Addco; this will improve the F/R roll stiffness balance. I think it was 3/4" diameter; I can measure if you need to know for suRe. The GT/Kadett bar will not fit as I recall.

THE BRAKES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SWAY BAR, IMO, BUT BOTH ARE IMPORTANT IMPROVMENTS.

Regards,
Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2008 10:54AM by starion887.

OK I had to add some more cage pix from our Manta:

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK I had to add some more cage pix from our
> Manta:

Mark, is that duct tape in the front transverse bar FIA approved?

Bob

---

Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

Ascona73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> starion887 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK I had to add some more cage pix from our
> > Manta:
>
> Mark, is that duct tape in the front transverse
> bar FIA approved?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> Opel is a 4-letter word...

You betcha! Nothing but the best!

Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>3/4" rear cylinders
> >

>
> Mark B.
>
>
Mark, all the Opels I ever had my nose in all had 19mm or 3/4" rear cylinders and they all got the zoot-capri, straight out of the Rally Ersatzteile Katalog Art. Nr xxxx was the 22mm rear cylinder.

This number sticks in my head because I had done the 5/8th to 3/4" conversion on a number of the vastly superior Saabs, and had to 'splain too many times to boys that read too many books how it made for more brake power and then when I started supplying the 5-6 Opel guys locally, several of them including a highly paid Boeing engineer, and a boy who now has worked on cars for decades but then was just a punk living at home wannabe with a huge bookshelf full of every damn book printed both quite derisively explained how wrong I was and how I needed to maybe read a bit more how hydraulics worked.

I still recall the smirks and rolled eyes, and their bizarre explanations how bigger cylinders would result in less brake force.

Anyway, 22mm was the number.
Now where to find them now all these years later is anybody's guess. Probably the same place as the Diesel oil pump cover which is a must for happiness.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

ok, thanks again for all the interest!

I am mucho concerned about (as brought up) about the A-piller support being needed, guess we answered that, and more importantly how to get it placed where I don't bang me knucles trying to drive... especially if I need to put padding on that bar. I'll post a pic soon of where I think would be good, with a piece of orange tape or something- I'm not fancy enough to place an imaginary line on top of a picture.

I'm planning on a low sill bar and a second bar sloping downward if coming from main hoop to front hoop... the way I interpret the NASA specs, this will satisfy both the "two door bar" rule and the "sill bar" rule. 3.7.3, fig. 3.6.2-11 seems like the A-piller support could come straight down, 4" from the upper bend, to the top of the "upper" door bar and do the same strengthening... that front corner is going to awfully damn busy regardless (3.6.2.-16) but we'll figure it out.









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2008 07:55AM by Yellowhammer.