Another "What I did on my rallycar" thread

Got a UPS overnite delivery today from Carlsbad, New Mexico (thanks Dad!). It was sent out Thursday.




And this is the JVAB-supplied hardware:

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Nice. That looks awesome.

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Grant Hughes

mmmmmmmmmmm....'bucket 'o suspension!'

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Looks like you took out the old strut tube. What are you doing for the ball joint indexing on the bottom now?

Tim

So this looks cool, but what about the possibility of increased positive camber that has already been an issue for this 50mm stuff? The offsets still look similar. Is the ride height increased or are the tubes shortened to adjust for this? And when one switches to a tarmac setup or decides to use a front sway bar, will the sway bars need to be redesigned with new attachment points to the A-arms? The photos I've seen so far indicate that these struts will interfere with the stock sway bar.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

...Brian...

-The camber issue is corrected by a) angling the top ot the strut tube towards the upper mount, and b) adding an eccentric camber adjustment bolt in the usual spot (top bolt on the tube ears).
-Assembly length is approximately the same as stock, so stock ride height should be within the range of spring seat adjustment.
-Sway bars? I dunno! There's only one way to find out, and I gotta get the stuff put together and on the car first!

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Sofa King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -The camber issue is corrected by a) angling the
> top ot the strut tube towards the upper mount, and
> b) adding an eccentric camber adjustment bolt in
> the usual spot (top bolt on the tube ears).

With B, if you're angling the strut and it will presumably be slightly closer to the tire at the top to account for the camber, what about clearance issues between the spring perch/lock ring and the inside wall of the tire? I already rub with 40mm in the stock location which runs parallel to the tire centerline and have to run spacers. Will you need spacers with the 50mm?

And how will running so much of this mass (the strut) further in-board affect the front end handling?

> -Assembly length is approximately the same as
> stock, so stock ride height should be within the
> range of spring seat adjustment.

So if the length is approx the same and it appears to me that the bottom of the strut probably sits about 2-3 inches higher than it normally would in the stock location, is this new setup a shorter (smaller) strut body or is travel decreased at all?

> -Sway bars? I dunno! There's only one way to find
> out, and I gotta get the stuff put together and on
> the car first!

Did the last 50mm setup interfere with that mount? I was under the impression it did. If so, this seems like an evolution of the mount -- but the offset location of the bottom of the strut tube still seems to be in the same spot.

...Brian...






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2008 02:11PM by rallybrick.

rallybrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sofa King Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > -The camber issue is corrected by a) angling
> the
> > top ot the strut tube towards the upper
> mount, and
> > b) adding an eccentric camber adjustment bolt
> in
> > the usual spot (top bolt on the tube ears).
>
> With B, if you're angling the strut and it will
> presumably be slightly closer to the tire at the
> top to account for the camber, what about
> clearance issues between the spring perch/lock
> ring and the inside wall of the tire? I already
> rub with 40mm in the stock location which runs
> parallel to the tire centerline and have to run
> spacers. Will you need spacers with the 50mm?

With about 1.5" of offset, and parallel axis tube, there was about an inch of tire-to-spring clearance. If the tire is about 1/2 way up the tube (it's not, it's lower) then it would have about 1/4 inch clearance with the angle correction (but actually it should be more).
BTW: I run 1/8" spacers to clear the Mazda calipers.


> And how will running so much of this mass (the
> strut) further in-board affect the front end
> handling?

What the hell kind of question is that??!?
Are you on crack?
You're smoking crack, aren't you?

> > -Assembly length is approximately the same
> as
> > stock, so stock ride height should be within
> the
> > range of spring seat adjustment.
>
> So if the length is approx the same and it appears
> to me that the bottom of the strut probably sits
> about 2-3 inches higher than it normally would in
> the stock location, is this new setup a shorter
> (smaller) strut body or is travel decreased at
> all?

Stock inserts have a lot of tube length compared to travel. The new inserts have less tube, and slightly more travel.

> > -Sway bars? I dunno! There's only one way to
> find
> > out, and I gotta get the stuff put together
> and on
> > the car first!
>
> Did the last 50mm setup interfere with that mount?
> I was under the impression it did. If so, this
> seems like an evolution of the mount -- but the
> offset location of the bottom of the strut tube
> still seems to be in the same spot.

Yes, the previous design did interfere.
Yes, this is an evolution.
Yes, the tube is in about the same place.
The previous version had a cup around the bottom of the tube. The cup is approx 1/4" wall thickness, and it was cup that was contacting the swaybar endlink bushing washers. The interference was such that all parts could be assembled, but the swaybar endlink bushing washers were rubbing against the offset cup thing as the strut was rotated (i.e. steering). Maybe by removing that 1/4" thick cup the contact issue is resolved. Maybe not. Or maybe it works on my car but not yours. I don't know.

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Wow, that is a really nice looking piece. Seems like a great idea.

How hard is it to make a good weld between the billet piece and and the cast Volvo knuckle?

And I'm curious why the mounting holes are way over on the wheel side of the knucle? Seems like it would be stronger if it was back up against the strut tube, no? Am I missing something?

-Dave

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, that is a really nice looking piece. Seems
> like a great idea.
>
> How hard is it to make a good weld between the
> billet piece and and the cast Volvo knuckle?

High quality European stuff use forged steel for the bottom part.
Welds sooooper marvelously.
>
> And I'm curious why the mounting holes are way
> over on the wheel side of the knucle? Seems like
> it would be stronger if it was back up against the
> strut tube, no? Am I missing something?

There is no doubts at all about the strength of any of the parts here.
Those ears are 3/16 and get a cap on them making them well boxed.
The ears were pre-made and are in fact Sub-a-rat so to use the as made the weldy part needs to scoot forward.
>
> -Dave

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:

> High quality European stuff use forged steel for
> the bottom part.
> Welds sooooper marvelously.

Silly me...

> > And I'm curious why the mounting holes are
> way
> > over on the wheel side of the knucle? Seems
> like
> > it would be stronger if it was back up
> against the
> > strut tube, no? Am I missing something?
>
> There is no doubts at all about the strength of
> any of the parts here.
> Those ears are 3/16 and get a cap on them making
> them well boxed.
> The ears were pre-made and are in fact Sub-a-rat
> so to use the as made the weldy part needs to
> scoot forward.

Ah, so does that mean Subaru struts bolt right up? That would be brilliant!

Last question, then: Why not extend the bottom of the billet doodad to reach the bottom of the clamp, allowing a second set of welds down there on a different plane. Should be a lot stronger. Might be stronger than necessary, but who ever heard of rally car parts that were too strong?

-Dave

Yeah, Subaru interchangeability would be the part that hasn't been mentioned yet. And that's why the ears are so huge. Blame the fools at Fuji Heavy.

The bottom of the forging needs a small centering ring in it for locating the balljoint thingie. It's a pretty boring little thing, and I didn't figure it was photograph-worthy.

Yeah, material through the hole might make it a bit stronger, but the idea was to transfer stresses between the forging and the billet thing. If I had to make the whole billet thing attach through the existing hole in the forging, and didn't have a top surface to work with, then yeah, I'd want to go all the way through. But I do have a top surface, and that will give me a nice big cross-sectional area and a HUGE increase in the moment of inertia (that's what makes I-beams strong!). So as long as there is good weld penetration at the inboard and outboard sides of the forging, then I am pretty fucking confident that any material inside the hole is extra weight.
That's extra UNSPRUNG weight. I didn't replace the boat-anchor stock calipers with light-weight aluminum calipers just to add all that weight back into the knuckles.

Shit, what am I doing here? I should be welding this shit up RIGHT FAWKING NOW!!!

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Hey Kevin,

I kinda agree and kinda don't. The outer part of the billet looks plenty strong to take the vetical forces. But the inner weld will be taking a lot of force to prevent the spindle from rotating (CW in your pix). A 'top of the head' estimate is that weld will have about maybe 1000+ lbs static force on it if the inner weld moved the tiniest bit. Spreading that 'counter-leverage' load across a longer area seems wise. I personally would add a vertical strap welded across that inner weld to strenthen it even more. Any way to grind down the seating points into the forging for the billet to get down to the center seat and weld across? Just an idea. (A(ctually, I don't know why you could not weld across the gap anyway in the seat anyway; should help penetration.)

It DOES look nice! I need to create a new front strut mount for the Starion and this look like one way to go. Did your dad do this work??? Do you know the inclination angle from the spindle axis to the strut axis as this was designed?

Thanks,
Mark B.

Just finished welding. Needs paint and assembly.


Mark,
Yeah, I did think about braking forces, and added a small gusset between the caliper ear and the vertical part. I also ended up welding in some small bits of square tube to cover the hole.

Yeah, Dad did the CNC mill work. He's still learning how to use the machine, and I made the job extra complicated by sending him some flame-cut steel with no parallel sides and no right angles.

I measured the angle in the knuckle as 12 degrees.

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Saturday: Assembled everything and bolted it into the car. Found out the calipers no longer fit.
Wednesday night: Made new caliper adapters.
Thursday (today): Put the brakes on, test drove it! Remembered that the driver's side tie rod end is shot.

Film at eleven.

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA