Ford V8 T5 (3.35) input shaft interchangable with T5z (2.95)?

I found a T5z box out of a 93 cobra with the 2.95:1 first and close ratio 2nd and 3rd. I'm really stoaked to get it and install it, but they swapped the input shaft for the later longer shaft. My adapter and everything is setup for the early V8 input shaft length, so I'm going to need to swap them out.

I've got an early v8 world class T5 stripped down, so the question is can I use the shorter input shatf from a 3.35:21 first geat T5, or will I need one specifically for the 2.95:1 frist. I'm thinking it's gearing specific but I'd like to be sure.

Also John, what was the name of that trans shop that you recomended to me a while ago?


Thanks again.
-TE

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I like to play with cars, it's very inappropriate.

Just buy my Taurus station wagon. Close enough, right?

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Something about something....dirt.

Quote
Magnum TE
I found a T5z box out of a 93 cobra with the 2.95:1 first and close ratio 2nd and 3rd. I'm really stoaked to get it and install it, but they swapped the input shaft for the later longer shaft. My adapter and everything is setup for the early V8 input shaft length, so I'm going to need to swap them out.

I've got an early v8 world class T5 stripped down, so the question is can I use the shorter input shatf from a 3.35:21 first geat T5, or will I need one specifically for the 2.95:1 frist. I'm thinking it's gearing specific but I'd like to be sure.

Also John, what was the name of that trans shop that you recomended to me a while ago?


Thanks again.
-TE

Hi Toby, been a while.
Yeah the gear on the end is 31 tooth or 34 or whatever and that sorta needs to mesh with the gear on the cluster gear:


Far as I can see it seems as thought that ratio tween input to bottom gear (cluster) is the big diff tween 2.95 gearset and the common Moosangst 3.35 set
Cluster:


Power comes in the clutch shaft, down this pair with a certain reduction ratio
then, depending on what gear 1-2-3 you select UP to the output hsfat thru another pair for the "total reduction"....so that first ratio changes everything downstream EXCEPT 4th.. When you select 4th, the synchro hub slides forward and locks input shaft direct to outputshaft, 1:1

If the thing is too long carve it shorter and chamfer the nose and the leading end of the splines. 10 minutes.

And the shop was Hanlon Motorsports
http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/

Hanlon Motorsports
3621 St. Peters Road
St. Peters, PA 19470
610-469-2695

Info@hanlonmotorsports.com

Hanlon Motorsports Hours:
Monday to Friday
9:00am - 5:00pm EST
Saturday
By Appointment
Sunday
Closed

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Hey John, yeah been a while, but I've been busy. Got the suspension done, a P.R.C. intercooler installed, and a few autocross events on the new front suspension. I'm really getting more and more pleased with how the car is turning out.

Thanks for the pics that makes sense now. From what I'm seeing there is no way that the 3.35 input shaft will mate to the 2.95 cluster, not a chance.

I was wondering if I could machine the shaft shorter. I just didn't know how much shorter it needed to be. (again pics are helpful since I don't have the trans in my hands yet).

It looks like I could chuck the long shaft up in the lathe where the pilot bearing rides and support the gear side. Turn down the shaft to the .63" diameter or what ever the pilot bearing is as far down as it needs to be to match the shorter shaft. Put a little chamfer at the end to match the shorty shaft a little fine emerycloth and then band saw the end off so that it's the correct length. Should work out right?

Sounds like a great excuse to use the 'toys' in the machine shop. I wonder if it will actually go that easily. I probably have a good chance destroying some lathe bits trying to cut that toothed surface. Do you think it will work?

If I give you the spline count you can have KEP make a clutch for me, and we will be hunkey dory.



Since I'm going to the KEP PP I'm ASSuming that I will need to change the clutch so going to a different spline count won't be an issue.

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I like to play with cars, it's very inappropriate.

Humm looks like those pics are actually from an aftermarket gearset.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/projectcars/mmfp_0705_project_1993_ford_svt_cobra_transmission/viewall.html

Looks like I can't use those for my "theory crafting".

The captions say:

Quote

This is the Astro Performance A-5 input shaft (top) vs. factory/OEM shaft (bottom). The A-5 input shaft is available in two Mustang lengths: one for '85-'93 5.0L Mustangs and the other for '94-'95 5.0Ls. You'll need to change out your clutch disc due to the 26 splines on the A-5 input shaft.

Quote

The A-5 cluster gear (top) not only has larger gear teeth than the factory/OEM cluster, but it's also a three-piece design, which means that in the unlikely event of a transmission failure, the cluster shaft can be pressed apart to replace any one gear that may be damaged. Astro has plans to develop other ratios to allow the customer to change out a couple of gears in order to change the ratio, not the whole gearset.

I still think the Lathe treatment is a sound plan of action. Very least it will save me ~125$ that a new shaft will cost. Very worst I'll break the lathe and need to get the 125$ input shaft.

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I like to play with cars, it's very inappropriate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2012 06:42PM by Magnum TE.

Having done the same basic thing (only with Miata input into a rotary) you might want to use an angle grinder to get through the outer layers of steel - suckers are often hardened. Lathe after that. Not an expert on the T5, but I see no reason whatsoever you couldn't do the same damn thing.

Mmmmmmm...... Toby, you had better do some more measurements and mock this up. You won't just be shortening the shaft....you will be moving the clutch center waaaaay back on the longer input shaft splines. Assuming the inner 'tips' in the inside of the clutch center splines will actually slide further back by between .5" to 75" on the reduced length input shaft, the 2 spline sets will very probably no longer be completely engaging each other when the clutch is engaged. This could strip out one set of splines or the other if you have any resonable power. All of the power has to flow through the splines.

IMO, the 2.95 is the right way to go. How about an added spacer plate bn bell housing and trannie?

Or add some weld material to the long input shaft and machine the splines further back. But you gotta get that well done and perhaps first undercut the area in which the weld material is added. The new splines need to be as strong as the original metal, as, again, all the power flows through just those tiny splines.

I recall that you can get the internal gearsets to match the old shaft or vice, but then you probably throw away some of the money that you put into the gearbox! O well....
Edit to add: If you can get the right length, right geared shaft for $125, just do that....
Mark B.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2012 07:01PM by starion887.

If you're using normal indexible inserts they'll live just fine.

Remember they like a good cut--020-030 for a good finish, not "worrying off" 002-003.

For taper look at the piccie and see if there's a couple of allens, rotate thing around like this


Stick a boring bar in like this:



Move the tool over to the OTHER side, flip the machine on so its going CLOCKWISE and get close and just wind the crossfeed in..

(practice on a hunk of scrap)
Nice tapers any angle you want.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

practice, haha. LEARN BY DOING!!!! SINK OR SWIM@@!@!!@

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I like to play with cars, it's very inappropriate.

Quote
Magnum TE
practice, haha. LEARN BY DOING!!!! SINK OR SWIM@@!@!!@

Better than stink or slim.
Huh?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I got the 2.95 box in the garage now. I made a deal with myself that I wasn't going to touch the box until I get my work bench built... maybe that will motivate me to build the dam bench already.

It looks nice and tight, if the input shaft were a compressor wheel I'd say it was within spec radially and in/out (I might actually measure it with something more accurate than my turbobrick finger wiggle). I can't wait to pull the input shaft and get things cut down.

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I like to play with cars, it's very inappropriate.

Quote
Magnum TE
I got the 2.95 box in the garage now. I made a deal with myself that I wasn't going to touch the box until I get my work bench built... maybe that will motivate me to build the dam bench already.

No shit....

Mine's been covered in the "JY" take-homes for too long.

I keep saying...if I sell it, I won't have to put it away, but that doesn't seem to be working fast enough.

Fuuuuuuukkk. I just re-checked my gear ratio, carefully this time by marking the input and output shafts.

It's a god dam 3.35:1 1st gear box. Kinda pissed off now.

I guess that's why the guy said they would swap right out with my fox input shaft.

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I like to play with cars, it's very inappropriate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2012 12:06PM by Magnum TE.

If its a 1:1 in 4th and its geared straight through, would it be possible to swap over .63OD for a .80?

Quote
ryanfay
If its a 1:1 in 4th and its geared straight through, would it be possible to swap over .63OD for a .80?

5th is fifth, and as far as i know the ID splines are the same...so swappen the set should be OK.
But ya know, if it IS a 2.96 first, that lets you use a 4.1 or even 4.3 rear axle and if your tires are around 24.5" to 25" diamtere, you can still get 42-44 mph out of 1st..

See you're juggling box and axle so 1st and second are actually about like normal, its 3rd and 4th which end up shorter geared....
Not TOOOOooooooooOOOO short but short enough you can feel it, so now you got a car that will get going gooooood, and keep hard "ax" in 3rd /4th.
7000 rpm with 25.4" tires is good for about 122 mph with a 4.3.....

In fourth.

So I say keep the tall overdrive, maybe not the .63 but sure the .72 GM 5th for nice relaxed revs 65-75mph..

All this juggling around clear?
Toby can still go to 4.1 with his 3.35 first

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.