Caster or Camber?

So I'm installing camber plates in my mk3 vw golf... i could set them as caster or camber or both? plates.. whats the opinion?

Dave

camber changes as the boingers go boing. the modern 1" thick sidewalls don't flex like the old county fair ballon type junk we used 30 years ago, but the fixation with camber remains. the old mythology said the neg camber invariably "has to be 3^o regardless or life as we know it will end!!!!!!!"

Personally in the high speed stages we now are almost always on, I LIKE the self-centerimg that 3-4^o castor gives me and that's in the longer cars that I use.
In a shorter car like 97.4" wheelbase Golves and Colts and Toilettas etc I'd say castor is a must if you want any stability in the normal 50-90 mph normal on SSs.

Camber is, if its around ---at static unladen height or in the middle of travel--zero to 1 degree, fine, be happy, don't worry.

So one vote for castor......but that's just my outdated opinion..
Remember "materials and TECHNOLOGY has changed.

Maybe you will be lucky and somebody who's never done an event or a photographer can tell you everything you need to know on their Facebook page.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
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my Rx7 has about 0 to 1 degree camber and a fair amount of caster. Need a way to measure how much since i gained some over stock with the subframe location.

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I set mine for camber, put them in the middle and use them to "fix" the camber in service after I whack too many monkey skulls at speed.

I also have adjustment on the strut to set the camber before the start.

We try to set up for seven degrees of caster, and between 2.5-3 degrees of camber at ride height. Maybe a tad less if you are signifigantly lifted.

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Jason McDaniel

Well seeing that I can dial in about 2.5 degrees on my spindles Caster they are going to be!

Thanks guys
Dave

I had adjustable camber and caster arms for one event. I basically set to max caster I could get but was only able to get to 1 degree of negative camber, which was an improvement from the 1 degree positive.
The handling felt amazingly improved from stock. The camber arms were some street shit though and buckled. I was able to fix and reuse the caster arms and ran Rally Colorado with them. There's that amazing long straight at Rally Colorado at the end of which is where Travis Pastrana rolled in 2005. The car was amazingly stable at the ~110 MPH even over the jump at the end that most people lift on.

If you can get camber down low then set it up for caster.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
DexterVW
Well seeing that I can dial in about 2.5 degrees on my spindles Caster they are going to be!

Thanks guys
Dave

We're here to help...believe it or snot.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Maybe you will be lucky and somebody who's never done an event or a photographer can tell you everything you need to know on their Facebook page.

You rang? I'm both, so I have extra good advice.


And to think, I almost missed this little gem by not reading this thread.

I agree with castor. Unlike certain fossils, I do not just disagree on principle. * rolls eyes *

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I'll chuck this post in here as it is sort of appropriate.

If you are running a mk2 or mk3 Golf with 4 stud wheels (mk3 4 stud is slightly wider track than mk2), then you can use the driveshafts, wishbones, uprights, ARB, brakes etc from a mk3 Golf VR6 / GTI or Corrado VR6 with 5 stud wheels.
This will give you stronger wishbones, wider track, more castor, larger outer CV splines.

28mm splines for 5 stud, 24mm for 4 stud CVs.


Assortment of mk3 Golf VR6 / GTI or Corrado VR6 components.


Uprights showing different balljoint position.


The brakes on the above conversion are either 280mm or 288mmm and will require the use of 15" wheels and of course the 5 x 100mm PCD stud pattern.

You can also use the power steering rack, either with or with out the pump connected and it is a cheap quick rack compared to the standard manual rack. There are a couple of different steering column spline sizes to watch out for though.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2013 12:45PM by danster.

Quote
danster
I'll chuck this post in here as it is sort of appropriate.

If you are running a mk2 or mk3 Golf with 4 stud wheels (mk3 4 stud is slightly wider track than mk2), then you can use the driveshafts, wishbones, uprights, ARB, brakes etc from a mk3 Golf VR6 / GTI or Corrado VR6 with 5 stud wheels.
This will give you stronger wishbones, wider track, more castor, larger outer CV splines.

The brakes on the above conversion are either 280mm or 288mmm and will require the use of 15" wheels and of course the 5 x 100mm PCD stud pattern.

Are the mk3 and mk3 vr6 knuckles the same? I'm running the mk3 knuckles (4-bolt) with larger rotors (256mm) on the mk2. So I'm wondering if I could use VR6 CVs, control arms, and redrill the vr6 hubs to 4X100. This would allow me to keep the 14in wheels. Mhmmmm...

Quote
Robert Culbertson
Are the mk3 and mk3 vr6 knuckles the same? I'm running the mk3 knuckles (4-bolt) with larger rotors (256mm) on the mk2. So I'm wondering if I could use VR6 CVs, control arms, and redrill the vr6 hubs to 4X100. This would allow me to keep the 14in wheels. Mhmmmm...

Slight lingo problem here....knuckles = uprights? Or knuckles = bottom balljoint?
Either way they are both different. If you look closely at the pic you can see the bottom balljoint is a taper pin on the 5 stud upright rather than the pinch bolt you have on the mk2 / 3 Golf 4 stud uprights.
You can also see the balljoint is set slightly forwad on the casting which gives the extra castor on this setup.
The 3 bolts that hold the balljoint to the wishbone are also slightly different in their postions. But the main issue will be that if you try to fit this upright to your existing 4 stud wishbones the wheel will not be centred in the wheel arch.
The wheel bearing ID / drive flange OD are the same as your 4 stud 256mm uprights though so I suppose you could fit the 5 stud drive flange and use the larger splined outer CV. Redrilling the drive flange to take your 4 x 100 disc and wheels.
Doing that would be a bit it messy IMO and you would not get the benefit of the wider track and better geometry.
The disc offsets are different too, the 280 and 288mm 5 stud discs being shallower. And unfortunately the mk4 Golf 5x100m 256mm disc is too deep an offset or it would have fitted and 14" wheels could have been used. Bespoke disc or spacer could solve that issue though as the 256mm caliper carriers bolt right up to the 5 stud upright.

Another thing to consider is that due to the design of the 5 stud VR6 uprights balljoint postion it means that when the steering is turned the driveshaft moves in and out more within the inner CV. So one needs to keep an eye on shaft plunge to ensure the inner CV does not kiss the drive flange and shatter. Limiting steering lock on the rack with spacers helps with this.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2013 01:45PM by danster.

Yeah upright= knuckle...Overhead its usually just Forumla type guys who say upright....

I did do the redrill thing for our local Pacific North west fast VW savage Tom Burress. So at least he was able to use the fatter hub and matching stub.
He like most guys already had a mountain of 4 bolt wheels so he wanted to use those, and that makes sense....

Looked like you had some tarmac tires in the background, you doing both tarmac and gravel?
Where you at in Scotland? My Sister-in-law did her Master's Degree up in Aberdeen, and my Dad who was a US Navy pilot was often in Scotland but usually in the worst weather conditions, like diverting from Stevanger in Norway....

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Yeah upright= knuckle...Overhead its usually just Forumla type guys who say upright....

I did do the redrill thing for our local Pacific North west fast VW savage Tom Burress. So at least he was able to use the fatter hub and matching stub.
He like most guys already had a mountain of 4 bolt wheels so he wanted to use those, and that makes sense....

Cheers for the clarification, I would say hubs but some people call drive flanges hubs........ ever heard them called bearing carriers!! Jeez some kind of standardisation would be cool. Never gonna happen what with you guys using imperial and us with the metric system. My Whitworth spanners feel left out.
And changing wheels is obviously a big ask so at least the redrilling of the drive flange allows the bigger CV splines without the hassle of wheel swaps.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Looked like you had some tarmac tires in the background, you doing both tarmac and gravel?
Where you at in Scotland? My Sister-in-law did her Master's Degree up in Aberdeen, and my Dad who was a US Navy pilot was often in Scotland but usually in the worst weather conditions, like diverting from Stevanger in Norway....

That pic with the wheels is just to show the "knuckles", it was taken when I was converting my Corrado road car from 4 stud to 5 stud. The wheels in the background are Audi "pepperpot" 15" 5 x 100 to go on the road car.
The rallies I entered a while back were "single venue" type and depending on the state of the terrain you could use either gravel or tarmac tyres as the stages were made up with sections of both. I tended to use gravel tyres to save the tarmac ones getting ripped to shreds. Saved the tarmac tyres soley for tarmac use on circuit days.
I am just north of Perth so pretty much bang in the middle.

To get back to the castor / camber topic I found I could not dial in the geometry I wanted with std components on my Scirocco (based on Rabbit / mk1 Golf platform). So I converted it to use the later 5 stud knuckles whilst wide tracking it. Needed a bit of work on shafts but got it done with some careful measurments and a bit of fabrication.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Those single venues things mostly at airfields like doun souf?

What sorta box you been using?

Ever see any other Weeee Dubs in Clubbie guys hands?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.