NoCoast Grant Hughes Godlike Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
I saw the ad for Dave Kern's old GTX and it got me thinking about build vs. buy. I'd wager that there are just as many abandoned builds as there are abandoned buys. So then I started thinking about abandoned/lost buys locally I know of. Quite a few of them in fact, more than abandoned builds I know of. Not more than abandoned "rebuilds" which is why I say, build it fast, build it affordably, be ready to build a new one.
Plenty of people have gotten onto stage in a nearly stock Impreza or Legacy on GR2 struts with stock brakes and drum brakes and open diffs and KN drop in air filters and stock exhaust. Grant Hughes |
reecers Reece Elite Moderator Location: Oklahoma City Join Date: 03/07/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 161 Rally Car: 1991 Ej20g'd Legacy |
yea but aren't they babying the car and just trying to survive? That is what I don't understand. Why would you want a car built with gum and ductape and not even begin to push the limits. This is coming from the couch potato I am lol, but I watch as many North american rally vids as I can find.
I am not an alien Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI |
Morison Banned Elite Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
What it is sometimes hard to remember is that the first few times 'racing' on a stage the newbie will have ear-to-ear grinning fun, no matter how slow they are going.
The car that - as John puts it - has stopped giving its owner a chubby after several seasons of learning, growth and confidence building, can still bring wood to the newbie and help another driver get thoroughly hooked with the sport. Something a 48 month start to sell-off build doesn't always do. Babying is also a context or perspective thing. Until people get a lot of seat time and build the skills, their level of aggressiveness is much like a faster driver's 'babying.' First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2013 06:38PM by Morison. |
Doivi Clarkinen Banned Super Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
Trust me, 20-30 years ago most of the cars, at least at the club level, were built with gum and duct tape and we were not babying them. (Right, Gene?) Back then coilovers were not the norm but an extreme exception. A hot suspension was some GAB struts and maybe some stiffer springs. I had some nice DeCarbon rally shocks that JV got me and some Volvo wagon springs on my Opel Manta. That was actually fancier than a lot of the cars. Drum rear brakes, a welded diff and Sears retread snow tires and we drove the piss out of it. I'm sure I had less than $1500 in my first rally car that I built from scratch when I first hit the stages and that includes paying somebody else (a whopping $350) to build the rollcage. Car prep has elevated exponentially over the years. |
tdrrally edward mucklow Mega Moderator Location: charleston,wv Join Date: 05/31/2011 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 763 Rally Car: ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle |
in the good old day when you could buy an out of date show room stock road racing car with a pile of spares for the right price i would say buy .
but now with the very different rules i would say buy the ss car and its spares then rebuild and rally an improved touring or other road racer car is pretty close adjust the cage and suspension if the deal is right on some elses project go for it, better that than the crusher of the back yard to rust. the good thing about building is you can make it yours the good thing about buying is it can be near if not turn key I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow! first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it! |
|
deaner Dane Aura Infallible Moderator Location: Caldwell, ID Join Date: 07/07/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 346 Rally Car: PS4 controller |
|
NoCoast Grant Hughes Godlike Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
I suppose I should have articulated my point a little better.
In discussions of build vs. buy, people always say, "buying is better, you get on stage faster." I contest that while this is true it also implies that buying gets you on stage at all, often times people that buy end up never getting on stage. Seeing Dave's GTX show back up after a few years made me think of all the cars that have been bought and disappeared. I can think of five without much effort. Would have been six but the buyer just sold it again to someone who's brought it back out already. Oh, just thought of three others... I can only think of three that were bought and made it to another stage rally. 2/3 were 20k+ open class cars. I contend it has LESS to do with the time, and more to do with the type of person/personality. The builds that come to mind that are basically abandoned or not really getting any or much progress are actually rebuilds of cars that have competed and were being "upgraded" in some shape or form. Grant Hughes |
|
tdrrally edward mucklow Mega Moderator Location: charleston,wv Join Date: 05/31/2011 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 763 Rally Car: ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle |
some day i feel like jens larson
i liked my starion, its was turn key ssa car turned rally car i liked my rabbit, celica, toyota pick and mirage they were builds so many folks buy a car they can't afford it sits in the drive way if its lucky it gets autocrossed or rallycrossed a couple times and driven to work some then it sits untill its sold or parted out. there needs to be a sportsman class with bolt in cages and small cc engines as a starter class i hate seeing a good old rally or racing car go to not I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow! first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it! |
deaner Dane Aura Infallible Moderator Location: Caldwell, ID Join Date: 07/07/2013 Age: Settling Down Posts: 346 Rally Car: PS4 controller |
Like starion887 said, things change. Not to mention motor sports, rally especially, is a HUUUGE money and time pit. I haven't even gotten to stage yet and have that figured out lol! I'd imagine some buy or start a build looking through huge, excited doe eyes. Then when the reality of the amount of commitment kicks in, the enthusiasm starts to fade.... my thoughts anyhow.
|
tdrrally edward mucklow Mega Moderator Location: charleston,wv Join Date: 05/31/2011 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 763 Rally Car: ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle |
i agree a bud started a saab project a while back with the its only credit thinking
the car is sitting next to the road with half a cage and no love. I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow! first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it! |
MeCalledEvan Evan Horner Mega Moderator Location: Columbus OH Join Date: 01/03/2012 Age: Settling Down Posts: 109 Rally Car: 1983 Mazda RX7 GSL |
But other than the increased cost of roll cage and safety equipment, is there any reason to not start out in rally by doing something like this? "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and have so much more to learn." - Claude Rouelle, Optimum G lecture June, 2011 |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Godlike Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
What you will often hear is something along the lines of, "It will cost you $1000 in entry fees and another $2000 in fuel and hotels and food and beer plus time off work, why would you show up with a vastly inferior product that can't possibly compete or likely finish the rally." I've heard the same argument used for recce also. Grant Hughes |
heymagic Banned Junior Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
I look at the price of rally now and am amazed. I know I have built at least 3 cages between '04 and '07 that never saw a stage.
While I understand the principal of what JV says, the reality is that IF and when all done a person has a 40 year old state of the art car, except for the power train. The average guy will never be able to push to the level of the factory guys back in the day and a stockish car will not be stressed enough to need the over the top , take forever mods. As Dave pointed out we went plenty fast on near nothing back then. With the average guy getting maybe 3 events a year , reliablity is good but you won't wear a car out like running 6-8 events a year like we did in the dark ages. |