Chris Eyre Chris Eyre Professional Moderator Location: London, UK Join Date: 09/07/2014 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 39 |
The pre-1988 Mk2 knuckles have an integral brake caliper carrier to take 239mm rotors only. I was referring to post-1988, as clearly prior 1988 would not work. The Passat shafts are 441mm and 675mm from circlip groove to circlip groove The GTI/VR6 MK3 shafts are 435mm and 667mm from circlip groove to circlip groove Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver. VWMotorsport.info | SeatSport.info | 4 VW Golf Mk3 A59s exclusively revealed > here < |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Mod Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
Ok I think we're starting to muddy the waters here. I've had an '87 GTI, '88 and '92 golfs and they all had the same knuckles. They were not the same as MK3 non-vr6 knuckles. Like I said, maybe its a North American VW thing. I'm using non-vr6 driveshafts. I guess I should have been more specific but I thought it was kind of obvious since the vr6 stuff (knuckles, control arms, driveshafts, etc.) doesn't work with non-vr6 stuff, for the most part. You seem to have the numbers handy so why didn't you post the difference between 4 cyl passat driveshafts and non-vr6 mk3 driveshafts? I'll say this again with some edits: On my Mk2 I have B3 passat 4 cyl control arms, mk3 non-vr6 driveshafts, mk3 non-vr6 tie-rods, mk2 power rack, mk3 non-vr6 knuckles/brakes and JVAB struts. Not that it matters but I'm running an 02a and its got a welded diff. It works great, I just did LSPR with no issues. Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 12:47PM by DG_Rally. |
Chris Eyre Chris Eyre Professional Moderator Location: London, UK Join Date: 09/07/2014 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 39 |
It must be that, but I don't actually know of these hubs. If you did have any photos, it'd be interesting to look at them
People have changed outer CVs on GTI/VR6 driveshafts before to run 4-stud configurations
I've collated some data for these which says the shorter shaft is 2mm shorter on a non GTI/VR6 Golf than a Passat B3 / B4 and the longer shaft is 3mm longer on a Golf, so it sounds like they're in a working range, even though it needs double checking when the parts eventually surface. Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver. VWMotorsport.info | SeatSport.info | 4 VW Golf Mk3 A59s exclusively revealed > here < |
ReluctantGolf Kevin Andrade Elite Moderator Location: Boston, MA Join Date: 07/15/2013 Posts: 55 Rally Car: VW Mk2 Golf for my rookie year in SCCA RallyX...MK2 GLI with 1.8T for my first event.. |
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Chris Eyre Chris Eyre Professional Moderator Location: London, UK Join Date: 09/07/2014 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 39 |
They're the same width, but with different engine mounts used.
No, they're very similar. 1353mm from backplate to backplate on an A3 GTI / VR6 rear beam. 1357mm from backplate to backplate on the earlier GTI A2s, 1340mm on the later ones. If changing for any reason, the issue is getting one with the integral torsion bar in the right width. There are beams of up to 1376mm without integral torsion bars. Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver. VWMotorsport.info | SeatSport.info | 4 VW Golf Mk3 A59s exclusively revealed > here < |
Chris Eyre Chris Eyre Professional Moderator Location: London, UK Join Date: 09/07/2014 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 39 |
This is a UK/Europe knuckle from a 1988-onwards (pretty sure it's 1988, possibly 1987, would ned to check), whic is also used on the non-GTI / VR6 Mk3 Golf and 4-stud B3 / B4 Passat: Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver. VWMotorsport.info | SeatSport.info | 4 VW Golf Mk3 A59s exclusively revealed > here < |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Mod Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I'll snap some pictures of the 2 when I have a chance. Mixing and matching inner and outer CV's gets tricky and thats why I went back to just the mk3 non-vr6 shafts. One thing I know for sure is the shorter Mk2 shaft is too short for the passat control arms. I got my spares mixed up and put one on by mistake. When in full droop the shaft would pull out of the flange, It made for some full pucker moments on stage when running a welded diff. Full 2wd to 1wd (right side only) when the left side was at full droop made the car pull sideways like a sonavabitch on gravel. When you put the car up on jack stands it wouldn't pull out, it needed to be driven. I didn't notice until I had it pulled out and sitting next to a mk3 shaft. Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Mod Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
Right on to this ^ I put an ABA into my mk2 so I swapped the mk3 the subframe at the same time. It allows that motor to sit lower and more level than in the mk2 subframe. Not necessary otherwise. I put a non-vr6 mk3 rear beam because it made the track a bit wider (approx. 1 inch) than the mk2 beam and because mk2 parts are getting hard to find in the midwest. The mk3 beam I used didn't have a torsion bar. The car came with an h&r sway bar on mk2 beam that fit perfectly on the mk3 beam. I'm also running mk3 rear calipers because the mk2 calipers tend to leak from the parking brake and again mk3 parts are easier to find (junkyard/parts store). I plan to go to the aluminum mk4 rear calipers at some point. Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
Towona Tony P Godlike Moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Join Date: 08/21/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 149 Rally Car: MK2 Golf |
Holy shit my head is spinning from all this good info coming in so fast.
My current setup: Front: Mk2 LCA's (unstrengthened) with all poly bushings Mk2 Axles (aftermarket) Mk2 power steering rack (the one with the waffle) Mk2 inner tie rods Mk2 outer tie rod ends Mk3 knuckles (non GTi/VR6) Mk3 discs/calipers (non GTi/VR6) Mk? subframe (not sure, how can you tell?) JVAB or Hotbits depending on the season I wouldn't say that I've had issues with this setup, but we did pretzel a LCA and tie rod after hitting a large boulder a few years ago (flipped the car instantly), and recently bent a tie rod and slightly deformed a LCA after sliding sideways into a ditch (put the car up about 45*). I don't think I will be switching to passat control arms anytime soon (have a large stock of spare LCAs/axles/tie rods etc... that would become useless). I may look at beefing the lca up a bit though, but only after beefing up the subframe and unibody. The boulder we hit (boulder with the mirror on it; kid is standing where the boulder was) The pretzel'd LCA The ditch strike The bent tie rod (also shows my front setup described above) Runamuck Rally |
Towona Tony P Godlike Moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Join Date: 08/21/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 149 Rally Car: MK2 Golf |
I don't think we got this knuckle in NA until the MK3 Runamuck Rally |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Super Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
OOOOoooouuuuch!
Ain't too often you get a piccie of "the decisive moment" Yeah, stronger arms, stronger crossmember, stronger body shells will save rally.. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
danster Haggis Muncher Senior Moderator Location: Haggisland UK Join Date: 01/04/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 409 Rally Car: VWs (for my sins) |
Bit of confusion over the knuckle it seems. This may help clarify things.
All 8v mk2 GTIs used the 239mm vented disc design with intergaral caliper carrier for the entire production run. The only change to that setup being the bottom balljoint pin diameter changed from 17mm to 19mm around 1988. 16v mk2 GTIs used the same 239mm brakes up to 1989, then they changed to the 256mm design with separate caliper carrier as pictured in a post above (the G60 models used the same knuckle but with a different carrier to accept a 280mm disc. Various Mk3 non GTI / VR models came with both the above options, ie 239mm solid or vented, and 256mm solid or vented. Disappointingly not yet a Jackass |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Godlike Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Exactly the setup we and many others have been running for years. Not sure when or where it started causing confusion but I have seen a lot of confusion in the past couple of years about what will and won't work. ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
Towona Tony P Godlike Moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Join Date: 08/21/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 149 Rally Car: MK2 Golf |
The MK3 tie rods... would that be inner an outers? Anyone use the straight scirocco outer tie rod ends? Runamuck Rally |
danster Haggis Muncher Senior Moderator Location: Haggisland UK Join Date: 01/04/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 409 Rally Car: VWs (for my sins) |
If people are increasing the track of a mk2 by fitting mk3 or Passat shafts and wishbones, they will no doubt be using the inner mk3 tie rods as they are longer than the mk2 type. Scirocco / Golf / Rabbit A1 outer tie rod ends are straight, where as the mk2 and 3 (the same) have a curve. That curve is so they clear the wheel rim on full lock. Disappointingly not yet a Jackass Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 05:05AM by danster. |