4G63T into the Colt

a local guy has a 88 Rx7 running a 4g64 motor in it and used the Rx7 TII transmission to get it all together.

---

~A.M.S.

"Some people are afraid of heights, not me. I'm afraid of widths"

Yes that I believe would have the bellhousing from a late 80's mazda b-2600 mated to the rx 7 tranny.

Transmission link for mating the 4G63 to a RWD application :

http://projectzerog.com/transmissions.shtml

"What you are talking about in fixing what you have is a TON less work IMO than a transverse to longitudinal conversion, espcially on top of a conversion to injection. Sleeves in block???? Can't you bore up a bit to the next size? Head avialable? Is this a 2.6L head?"

I was running air cooled mahle piston connected to a 2L (4G52) in a 2.6L block (4G54). The engine was de-stroked by adding the crank. There are 3 main bearing configrations for the 4G54 and only one of them fit my crank. I haven't been able to source a new block and I've been told that the mahle pistons are not available in an oversize... hence the necessity to resleeve.

The aircooled mahle pistons are necessary because the pin height and piston dimension "zero dec" the piston in the block.

Yes the head is a 2.6L... non jet valve head.

You know when you're doing a transit up the highway ? I never had the cozy feeling of doing the speed limit because I was always worried about the driveline breaking.

This time out, I want to get it right, have ample spares and be able to build something I can enjoy for a long time.

I appreciate everyone's input 100% and I thank you all for it.

I do have questions before finalizing a direction in which way to go.

It seems that there are these options to look at :

Rebuilding the hybrid 2.6L I have. (keeps me in G2)
Installing a 4G64 (Keeps me in G2, but is limited in performance parts)
Installing a 2.6L (not destroked)
Installing 2.6L Starion Turbo drivetrain
Installing a 4G63T

Spare parts availability is high on the list, as are rebliability and performance.

Your guy's thoughts ?

Morten2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I was running air cooled mahle piston connected to
> a 2L (4G52) in a 2.6L block (4G54). The engine was
> de-stroked by adding the crank. There are 3 main
> bearing configrations for the 4G54 and only one of
> them fit my crank. I haven't been able to source a
> new block and I've been told that the mahle
> pistons are not available in an oversize... hence
> the necessity to resleeve.
>

Do you know what car/truck models this block came from? And the differences in the 3 main crank configs?? Just seems odd that this cannot be found.

Regards,
Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morten2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > I was running air cooled mahle piston
> connected to
> > a 2L (4G52) in a 2.6L block (4G54). The
> engine was
> > de-stroked by adding the crank. There are 3
> main
> > bearing configrations for the 4G54 and only
> one of
> > them fit my crank. I haven't been able to
> source a
> > new block and I've been told that the mahle
> > pistons are not available in an oversize...
> hence
> > the necessity to resleeve.
> >
>
> Do you know what car/truck models this block came
> from? And the differences in the 3 main crank
> configs?? Just seems odd that this cannot be
> found.
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.

It is a "large journal" 2,6 block and a matching "large journal" 2,0 crank.
The same nice hybrid could be done with any later "small journal" block and crank.

And the cost of re--$leeving+ a piston set should be weighed against the cost of a set of simple 92.5mm custom pistons. All the dimensional date is right there on the previous pistons.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I would rather convert to the later block and crank, and avoid the heat transfer from the sleeve to the block. I can easily imagine that in high performance use, there will be somewhat uneven heating of the sleeve at points in time, and the thermal contact between sleeve and block will be uneven. OK for a truck or relatively stationary application, but, IMO, it's just another point of heating in a race application that can be easily avoided.

If staying in G2 is not a big deal, then why go to the effort to stick with the old block/crank combo to stay under 2.4L?

Regards,
Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would rather convert to the later block and
> crank, and avoid the heat transfer from the sleeve
> to the block. I can easily imagine that in high
> performance use, there will be somewhat uneven
> heating of the sleeve at points in time, and the
> thermal contact between sleeve and block will be
> uneven. OK for a truck or relatively stationary
> application, but, IMO, it's just another point of
> heating in a race application that can be easily
> avoided.

Just about every motor in the WRC for years now have been sleeved.
Plenty of iron Cossie blockes got sleeved, there's no problems if done right except cost~~$150 a sleeve for decent ones and then a shit load of dough to bore the block so large, press the sleeves in and finish the bores on the shrunk in sleeves.

All that just to use the low cost forged pistons like I sent you??

The math doesn't add up.
Morten is getting shitty advice all along and getting fawked hard and he doesn't know enough of the costs to realise it.

4 custom flat tops, because I'm fairly certain the bores can't be taken out to 94mm and the hole in the gasket is smaller than 94mm---94mm being the next size available for the lost cost forged set.
>
> If staying in G2 is not a big deal, then why go to
> the effort to stick with the old block/crank combo
> to stay under 2.4L?

Because when the 2,4 is fresh and tight, the 92 x 90 motor makes a motor that will rev nicely past 7500. Its better for rally use than either the 2,6 tractor escapee or the uninspiring 2,0.
It really does go good, torque from size, revs from spec.
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

the starion transmission is crap....just warning.

---

~A.M.S.

"Some people are afraid of heights, not me. I'm afraid of widths"

low impedance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the starion transmission is crap....just warning.

This I cannot understand or accept. We rally a Starion, and have used the same trannie for at least 15 events. Prior to that, this car was a SCCA road race car for about 6-8 years that repeatedly went to the Runoffs and had some of those infamous sneaky mods to make it was was reputed to be the fastest 'stock' Starion in the US. We regularly run about 250 HP, 13-15 lbs of boost, and plenty of torque, all in a car that wieghs 3150 in rally trim (almost 3500 lbs with crew).

I read the blurb on the link that Morten posted about the Starion trannie input bearings burning out in repeated high RPM usage. We typically shift at 5500 RPM (rarely over 6000 rpm) because that is where the torque and acceleration are optimum with the Starion turbo setup.

If guys are using 18-20 lbs of boost and dumping the clutch on pavement or on the drag strip, then THAT might be a problem. But rally use is so toally different; if you dump the clutch, you just spin the tires. And like above, the high RPMS are just not needed or optimum.

The Starion trannie in actual rally use appears to us to be just fine. Just our direct and (extended) experience with this part. It does get regualr attention and gear oil changes with Mobil1 gear oil, so that certainly helps over what some fellow on the street with a 110k mile trannie will (not) do.

Regards,
Mark B.

It's probably like the much maligned Type 9 box in the XR4Ti (and a zillion Yuro-fords). It's not a terrible gearbox, but if you put 200+ ft. lbs. to it and drive it like you just hot-wired it in the mall parking lot, it probably isn't going to last too long. Probably why I went through two of them in high school (under warranty, so the second it got a little garunchy, in it went to the dealer).

I did run into a kid in the next town over who had an immaculate Starion TSi (?), and I complimented him on how nice it was. He said yeah, but it only had 2nd and 4th gear left or something like that. I told him to look up Mark online. =)

Everybody says the WRX box is made of glass. I know of 3 WRXs that are all damn near 100k, and they all still shift.

I guess the lesson is when you're nearing the design limits, use mechanical sympathy in your driving or be prepared to lay out the Visa card.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

First starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would rather convert to the later block and
> crank, and avoid the heat transfer from the sleeve
> to the block. I can easily imagine that in high
> performance use, there will be somewhat uneven
> heating of the sleeve at points in time, and the
> thermal contact between sleeve and block will be
> uneven.

but then he wrote:

>OK for a truck or relatively stationary
> application, but, IMO, it's just another point of
> heating in a race application that can be easily
> avoided.

Make up your mind, eh? Trucks basically have to run WOT forever. Any thermal issues will show up rather quickly. Race cars get a break every now and then, at least!

Where I work, we sleeve blocks all the time. Most of it is admittedly for drag use, but we get some roundy-rounders and vintage road racers, too, and when the ultra-rare Stage II Buick V6 or sideoiler 427 Ford blows a rod, you can't replace the block, gotta repair, so you weld it back together, peen it around, sleeve it, do what you gotta do.

Plus you have to figure that practically every aluminum block out there is sleeved, and they don't have any apparent problems.

But yeah, sleeving is expensive, almost always cheaper to just get another block *if another block is available*. MitsuMills aren't exactly rare.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2007 07:30PM by Pete.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Make up your mind, eh? Trucks basically have to
> run WOT forever. Any thermal issues will show up
> rather quickly. Race cars get a break every now
> and then, at least!

It's the temp changes from WOT to idle to WOT that would cause any temp disparity in expansion, etc. Stationary or constantly at WOT would give a stable temp situation.
>
> >
> Plus you have to figure that practically every
> aluminum block out there is sleeved, and they
> don't have any apparent problems.

Yep, Vega blocks were sleeved a lot, I know. But a thermal barrier is a themal barrier, not matter what. Wall temps will be higher. And not matter what, sleeves DO comes loose from time to time; .0005 or 001 oversize on the bire and then things get prone to looseness; why bother with the possibility of a shop doing it poorly?


Regards,
Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2007 09:04AM by starion887.

Get a 1g 6 bolt, 16g, 550's, fmic, full 3", boost controller-280 + hp. There are bellhousing adapters from 4g63 to t56. Have an axle shop narrow a Toyota 8" truck axle-get like a 4.88 or 5.29 with a spool. Buscher makes rwd engine mounts. The problem is that the thermostat housing on the back of the head will be against the firewall-the greatest engine of all time doesn't work very well turned that direction. Sounds like a lot of work for a short wheelbase pile. Just fix what you've got and drive the piss out of it until she's good n crumpled.

T56 is a horrible transmission. Hard to shift, poor ratios (it is really a 4 speed with too-tall overdrive and way too tall overdrive) and it's heavy too.

I know I don't like too many transmissions but for the expense you could get a decent Richmond 4-speed. New. With semi-decent ratios.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.