Tell the drama to your mama

Recently a private message was sent to me on SS.com. Why am I posting about it over here? (Some might say bitching!!) It involves the mutual animosity of two of the members here and one of them a former member on SS.com. I am not going to name names nor will I publish the text of said message. One of these people I've had the pleasure of speaking to on the phone and came away with a feeling that I was speaking to a wealth of knowledge. The other one I haven't been formally introduced to, but I might be able to look past this and drink a beer or two with the person. To my point of this whole post, and specifically to the one who pm'd me. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS IN HELL ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE'S MUTUAL DISLIKE. I know my own mind. My mother raised me to have common sense and to judge other's on their deeds and actions. I will keep my own counsel, thank you very much.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

Oh PM!
Seems some people want to maintain a facade of propriety and talk shit behind people's backs. What can one say?

seems like there is a lot of angry people there, and people drag out shit from 8 or 10 or more years often even things they weren't even involved in.

I was talking to Ozgur when this popped up and we were commenting on how PMs seem to build not trust but a general mistrust and those that do the Private Message for Poisoning things ought to be known---so that we can mistrust them and not have to worry about normal, frank people.

You have me all curious now, who's the formar member, who's the Poison Messagenger?
Is the former member Kurt Spitzner!!!!!

Some sociopath alchoholic?

Drama!
(who can live without drama?) (I can!)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh PM!
> Seems some people want to maintain a facade of
> propriety and talk shit behind people's backs.
> What can one say?

I don't know what to say, except please don't try and drag me into the middle of it. Oh fuck it, by posting in the first place, I am feeding the troll. But I have opened the proverbial Pandora's Box, so here goes.

>
> seems like there is a lot of angry people there,
> and people drag out shit from 8 or 10 or more
> years often even things they weren't even involved
> in.

And I have to wonder WHY this person PM'd me?

>
> I was talking to Ozgur when this popped up and we
> were commenting on how PMs seem to build not trust
> but a general mistrust and those that do the
> Private Message for Poisoning things ought to be
> known---so that we can mistrust them and not have
> to worry about normal, frank people.
>

Yeah, and had I posted this on SS I have no doubt less than a stern warning if not outright bannination would have befell me. I will endeavour to be open and frank about this in the future.

> You have me all curious now, who's the formar
> member, who's the Poison Messagenger?
> Is the former member Kurt Spitzner!!!!!

Not Kurt Spitzner, but the names of JB Niday, the aforementioned Spitzner, Mike Halley, who to me seems like an ok guy the little bit I've interacted with him, and finally Mike Hurst were mentioned in the PM to me.

>
> Some sociopath alchoholic?

I can't speak to Richard Miller's personality or whether or not he's an alcoholic.
But damnit, shit like this makes it really hard to give a guy a fair shake before passing judgement.
>
> Drama!
> (who can live without drama?) (I can!)

I can too here here!!!
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

oh boy, confusing drama

but then, I am female, so confusion is a way of life

I think imma move on to the next thread now

Move along people, move along.......

Nothing to see here..... Move along......

Welcome to the club Lee. I stay away from certain people and organisations to avoid drama, I'd be damned if I pay for drama to begin with.

---

Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

of course, my first instinct was to ask what your s/n on ss is so I too can start sending you PMs and bitching about people

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I formally apologize for making public my irritation that was originally a private matter. I have taken steps to insure that I won't be bothered again by the original instigator of this fiasco.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

Vorpal_Rally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
> I formally apologize for making public my
> irritation that was originally a private matter.
> I have taken steps to insure that I won't be
> bothered again by the original instigator of this
> fiasco.
>
> menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la mort!


Ah, but what steps will you now take to not be bothered by some of us?

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vorpal_Rally Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> > I formally apologize for making public my
> > irritation that was originally a private
> matter.
> > I have taken steps to insure that I won't be
> > bothered again by the original instigator of
> this
> > fiasco.
> >
> > menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la
> mort!
>
>
> Ah, but what steps will you now take to not be
> bothered by some of us?


That depends on what you might send my way. Whether or not I consider it a bother...

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of course, my first instinct was to ask what your
> s/n on ss is so I too can start sending you PMs
> and bitching about people
>

Mirrilee, the rules there on Special Stage allow personal attacks, open slander and outright lies anywhere if and only if the person being slanders doesn't love whatever the latest escalation of cost, or twisting of rules or simply makes fun of idiotic new Rules like say this year alone the new Rally America Press Credentials rules, or the new rally America Telephone Rules for Families and Friends also know as "Don't Call, Don't Tell".
You see some of us who have devoted oh 40 years to motorsport know that virtually anything we want to improve begins first by disassembly and inspection and discussion of what is not working or working poorly.
This applies to whole cars, car components, relationships within or without the Sport, and bringing it home to this specific subject, the relationship between crews and Organisers, crews and Sancioning Bodies, Organisers and Sactioning Bodies, "US" and the civilian world we try and do what we do in etc.

In the mechanical world, somebody brings me a car or a transmission and says "Oi Mang, eeeeets fawked op mang." So I try it and so OK, it won't shift, the car doesn't move, so in the REAL world, I'd say "Muchachito! What you done to that nice trannie I build, doooood?, It's Fawked UPP!"

See? Discussion of what's wrong both ways, then agreement on the conditions then:

"So dude, whatcher did to that thing I built it good mang! And you drove it only 5000 miles"
He says "Fawk if I know!"

I say "OK you savage, let's look."

So first we identify a problem, discuss it, suggest a course of action to PINPOINT the problem since "EEEEeeet's fawked up!" although accurate is a bit vague and IT DOESN'T POINT UP IN A DIRECTION to SOLVE the PROBLEM.

So we yank the trans out and pull off a cover, OK? And we see there is a hole the size of a grapefruit in the case, all the oil is drained, the gears are all black and blue, so I'd say "I think we may have narrowed down the problem a bit", but we still must find out where the hole came from, right?

So what follows in the important part, careful question like in these photos:


And if we need to examine more closely, or the person has trouble with memory then we might help the discussion maybe like:


Eventually we find that my man landed on a huge rock when he was playing and didn't have his sump guard on but he "forgot".

See? Key to solving a problem is discussion, focusing in on what seems to be the problem, checking and confirming the problem, discussing what the problem was caused by or grew and what can be done to fix the problem and how to guard against a reoccurrence of the problem.

That's how many people solve problems..

But many people solve problems by HATING the person who suggests there might be any ANY sort of problem. Many seem to think that 30-40 car entries average since the 1970s is just hunky dory and those guys have a Carte Blanche to say whatever they want because they're Good ol' Boys For those old crustaceans, they slander and slag obliquely since they seem disparate to maintain a facade of "Decorum", then they write PMs and in the PMs they make up lies and exaggerations and spread rumors as fact when they know better.

So, go ahead write whatever you like, call anybody any insult, make "ad hominum" attacks totally out of context on SS.com just make sure the Old Dinos know you don't doubt a thing they do, regardless of how shortsighted, amateurish or vindictive it might be.

As one BMW boy and some flash in the pan snap-shooter guy said "he's not here so we can say what we want" so attack me.
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Since you don't like posting your name or contact information on Special Stage, I will repeat the message so every one can see how I lie about john:

I can not at this moment cut and paste the message since Special Stage is down, but it went mostly:

who would john ban? Me, Mike Hurst, Mike Halley, J.B. Niday among others including several from Saab forums who accused him of fraud (please note that I did not accuse john of fraud not do I have any opinion on whether or not he did any thing wrong and it was many years ago) This is pretty good company in my opinion.

Also, Lee you stated that you did not want to make your opnion public. Assuming this meant only on Special Stage, then you should change your signature. Over here, you certainly have made your opinions clear as I have.
Richard

---

RichardM

ok, now the drama begins...

[sits back and grabs some popcorn]

I hope Lee did not feel he was being ignored by my lack of a response. I would hate to hurt his feelings.

---

RichardM

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok, now the drama begins...
>
>


hey, share some popcorn

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Miller, you piece of shit, you lie as is the norm by selective editing, you old withered shit.

You also without qualifications stated as a fact

Quote

"Originally Posted by RichardM
Who would jv ban? Me, Mike Hurst, Mike Halley, J.B. Niday, the moderators of this forum. Many Saab forum people since they have accused him of theft in the past. Puts us in good company I think.
Richard
Richard, "

You slandering fool. 2 people: Robert Wagner formerly of NYC, and his love-buddy Chip Lamd a weasel I have never met, and never talked to other than "Hello is this Chip lamb?.....click" have repeated for over 10 yearts that I "stole" "lots" of "valuable parts including Wagners so called rally car which was in fact a typical NE Saab 96 missing nearly the whole floor, the shock mounts and firewall rotted which Wagner abandoned behind my shop--along with piles of his shit which----living in NYC he had nowghere to store things for YEARS---was left in that shop with the doors wide open when I left.
2 people who worked in concert, both assholes who work at keyboards all day long, and now YOU continue the slander about which you know nothing, but you do know full well that their charges were refuted but numerous people including some right here on this forum Andrew Steere and Mike White and Graham Cullen who were shourted down by those two, called names, threatened, etc.

Two people who were trying to position themselves;ves as "authorities" by copying
everything done on Wagner's car---for which he paid for work with a check on a closed bank account---a check which I still have--not NSF, that's an oversight---a check written for 1650 or 1850 on a closed bank account---shows intent--- and what has transpired since?
Lamb, at least according to two members here who live nearby and whose paths cross at the machine shop they all use in the Richmond area-- by the politest description a "clown" and "hack" and "idiot", these from people who HAVE spoken to him, has positioned himself as a sage guru of all things Saab 96.


But you Miller, you piece of shit, you should understand what you'll be banner for.
You slander me and repeat things primarlty with the intent of having them believed, you didn't bother to read the one note about behavior here:
Most things that will get censored on other Forums is fair game here. Proceed at your own risk. Note that the webmaster is not responsible for the views or opinions posted on this Forum, in a very real and legally binding sense.

That's not to say there aren't any rules here. On the contrary, one sure fire way to get booted is to act consistently stupid or take personal attacks too far. Another is to whine or bullshit incessantly without contributing either knowledge or humour to the discussion. Any malicious quoting out of context to seriously deceive (rather than just poke some fun and obviously josh around) is grounds for ass kicking. Ditto on posts complaining about spelling or grammatical errors. If you are convicted by a jury of your peers, you may be sent to the Sin Bin for detention.

So Miller, you should find yourself in a new home soon where you can spread you lies all you want.

By the way before you go your claim I am trying to tear down whatever grandiose words you used.
Tell us how trying to help DOZES and DOZENS of people since 1984 build stronger, more correct cars---not hundreds as you lied to Lee that I claim, but how's trying to help people build cars they can beat hard and be competitive---and thereby stay in the sport longer, become better thru experience, have more FUN with better motors, trannies and brakes and suspension---tell us all how that is trying to tear down anything.

(of course even there you slander me saying you don't believe I have helped anybody. Fuck you you senile git.)

And don't give me some shit about criticizing SCCA or Rally America is "tearing things down" go read the explanation about on how conversations and dialog works among peers.


Rally in North America is stuck where it is BECAUSE of FUCKTARDS like YOU, who are spineless, weak, stupid and slow.

Finally, you attempt to assume a air of superiority by constantly saying I am foul mouthed.
Well, shit for brains, LIES and MALIGNANT SLANDER is FOUL no matter how you phrase it and you've been doing that BEHIND MY BACK WHEN YOU THINK I DON'T KNOW FOR YEARS, but other people who think your and Wagner's and lamb's shenanigans are spineless and disgusting have tipped me off.

Your complete lack of character, and willingness to slander is now well established.

And PS

You claim to be 6'2".

"I didn't know they stacked shit that high"

"TEXAS!!! You come from Texas?
Only thing there are in Texas is steers and queers! I don't see any horns!!!"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.