I wanna be a top rally driver ASAP, what car should I buy?

Tom B Wrote:
> I'm a horrible driver along with pretty much
> everyone else around here...I have moments of
> brilliance/insanity and other moments of complete
> stupidity...see upsidedwon rabbit.

Gee, Tom, fishing for compliments

I have co-driven for some very good drivers from around here (Ross Foster (the best), Gary Cavett, Jay Woodward, Jamie Thomas (once she gets comfortable)). I think any of them could go to Europe and run rallies all of the time and rise to the top.

The sad thing is that I realizes doing lots of rallies with lots of drivers all over the place is that there are more good drivers than there are opportunities, so if you really want to be a top driver, you have to do things like sell yourself and put yourself into the right places at the right times and all that BS.

> The Rally America BIG SHOW
> is cute, and the X_games are even cuter, why
> anyone would even give a rats ass about the
> X_games is beyond me, its an overrated rally-x on
> TV....I watched last year, it was entertaining,
> yet lacked actual rallying...hmm, what is being
> sold there?

That is why the event is called 'Rally Car Racing', not Rally.

What is being sold? Enough of the rally drug to hopefully get people hooked.

So, what was the point of this thread again?

Tom, the top rally driver in the US has to have a decent speed factor. Thats what this thread is about. RA is the top series here.

Yeah, I am Edward to RA and my speed factor blows. I am old, relatively poor and slow. I am not trying to present myself as a good example of a top driver. But I am not high, today. ;-)

You can take the thread were you want but to be a top driver, you need a top car, experince and you will end up with a high speed factor.

A numerically "high" speed factor is handy is you want to set top times. It will allow you to start earlier in the pack. Road conditions usually are better. The guy who started in front of you is going to be going faster and is less likely to hold you up. There will be less triangles because there will have been less incidents on the stage at that point. I can think of more reasons why a good speed factor could be important.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

> The Rally America BIG SHOW
> is cute, and the X_games are even cuter, why
> anyone would even give a rats ass about the
> X_games is beyond me, its an overrated rally-x on
> TV....I watched last year, it was entertaining,
> yet lacked actual rallying...hmm, what is being
> sold there?

Oh, I want to talk about this too. like it or not, X-games IS the big show. The top US rally drivers get invited and they show. I guess the TV exposure is worth a lot to sponsors.

This is what the noob sees. Ken Block jumping his STi. Then he does some searching and maybe gets told that he is not worthy to start out in an STi. He starts acting up like Eric Cartman, 'cause his Mom already bought him one,and decides to go to college in Canada. Maybe that's a good thing.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

I could make the case for open being a safer place to start as it is far more forgving and a lot less likely to suprise you mid turn. I can make any P class car go plenty fast to kill. The only time the AWD Turbo car is likely to be a lot less safe is up steep hills or in a section of linked turns where the P class car does not have time to get up to speed between turns.

I think we have no clear coralation that points to the right way to start or progress.

Last I looked Chris Blackly has a better speed factor then I, however I am always much faster then him... What does that tell you about speed factors?

If overall results are your aim then clearly you should be driving AWD Turbo, duh!

Allen is right 2wd is its own race and should be judged as such.

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In the long run reality always wins.

I am not a big fan of everything speed factor, but I presented it as an easy way to define top RA drivers. And, I think it mostly works for current drivers at the top of their game. My top 9 list (100-85) represents the reigning champion, many recent event winners and X-games invitees.

>If overall results are your aim then clearly you should be driving AWD Turbo, duh!
Yeah, duh plus one.

This is a hypothetical thread. It's not my problem. I'm not a noob. I have already driven 2Wd and AWD, turbo and non-turbo rally cars (poorly).

I just challenge the RA noob "guidelines" and the conventional wisdom that it is better to gain experience in low powered 2wd cars. Cheaper yes, but is it the fast-track to the top?

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

NoCoast Wrote:
> the new WMG stadium rally series.

Huh????

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

My guess is RA powers to be get their rocks off making rules to tightly control everything and then go ego tripping over making special exceptions or it was forced upon them by their insurance.

I diasagree wilth JVL's school of thought that 2wd will teach about going faster any different than AWD. Starting in 2wd for some drivers would have been a waste of time. I can't imagine Crazy Leo in a NA 2wd car without him bashing his head to a pulp on the dash screaming for power, traction and action. Hell, he'd probably pitch it off the first exposure just for some excitement. Difference is he is in machinery to allow him to play w/ the big boys in the deep pool.

How about Rich Wong finishing 2nd OA at TallPines? Had he been limited to 2wd he'd never had any glory. Some guys have what it takes to go fast, car control and make the opportunities to practice between events in similar cars. Its silly to force everyone to start with pre-defined machinery. Wonder if CrazyLeo would have been allowed to start New England Forest in his Open class car?

Guys like Jon Nichols and Gord Olsen are only marginally faster in their Open class cars than their Gr2 VWs when its dry and probably just in the start launches and uphills. Same applies to A. Havas in whichever of the 2wd cars he's driven vs. the Open class cars he's rented. Kyle sure hauled ass in the Focus and Shepherd in the SRT4. Zimmer in his NA AWD Subie goes faster than most turbo AWD drivers around corners and downhills. Its drivers more so than the cars.

2wd needs the increased exposure. Having guys without trust-funds start w/ 2wd hopefully can get them to stay and play for more years but without any recongition or hope of sponsorship, why would they? I'll be back MaxAttacking for Rally WV because its a great championship to be a part of. Max Attack has shown what it does for event entry #s but getting a season long healthly 2wd championship would help both series.

Tim ONeal showed up at Baie and I poked around his new Mazda3. He said he was shaking down the car in hopes to create a fleet of Mazdas as school cars and would probably move away from VWs.

Problem I see w/ 2wd is there are less new inexpensive 2wd cars suitable for rallying on the market now so guys w/ $ are torn between building a shiny new slow overweight car which looks good or driving a old hunk of junk rallycar that hauls ass. That and most rally specific parts available are for AWD turbo cars anyhow.

Really, lets start a side-thread of what current production NA 2wd cars would be worth building? Someone start a list.

I see the rule as another limitation set by RA which reduces event entries. Run what you brung!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2008 09:47PM by CommanderSalamander.

CommanderSalamander Wrote:
> My guess is RA powers to be get their rocks off
> making rules to tightly control everything and
> then go ego tripping over making special
> exceptions

Since I wordsmith the rules, occasionally come up with rule changes and work with the guys who come up with most of the rule changes and grant the exceptions, I can tell you that the exceptions deal is some kind of ego power trip that they have.

From what I can tell, they just want to make sure that people aren't going out in equipment that is over their head because a) no one wants to see anyone get hurt and b) it keeps the insurance company happy when no one gets hurt.

> Its silly to force
> everyone to start with pre-defined machinery.

OK, let's do like other race series does and just require that everyone go to an expensive, multi-day school and get signed off first before being allowed to compete.

alan

> OK, let's do like other race series does and just
> require that everyone go to an expensive,
> multi-day school and get signed off first before
> being allowed to compete.

I'm OK with that. I went thru ONeal's SCCA ProRally licensing school. No such thing with RA now?

CommanderSalamander Wrote:

>
> Problem I see w/ 2wd is there are less new
> inexpensive 2wd cars suitable for rallying on the
> market now so guys w/ $ are torn between building
> a shiny new slow overweight car which looks good
> or driving a old hunk of junk rallycar that hauls
> ass. That and most rally specific parts available
> are for AWD turbo cars anyhow.
>
> Commando Codriver- "Nomex underwear is over rated"

I fully agree.

Also your point about driver speed not changing between AWD and 2Wd held true for me I drive about the same speed in all of them when there is decent grip.

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In the long run reality always wins.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NoCoast Wrote:
> > the new WMG stadium rally series.
>
> Huh????
>


Sssshhh. I didn't say that outloud. No more RA + WMG = No more RA involvement with X Games. So what does that leave? I read somewhere that rally was the most watched part of the X Games the past two years. Do you think they'll eliminate it, or will the capitalize on it? How would they do that? How do they do it with Motocross and such. With stadium events.

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Grant Hughes

CommanderSalamander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > OK, let's do like other race series does and just
> > require that everyone go to an expensive,
> > multi-day school and get signed off first before
> > being allowed to compete.
>
> I'm OK with that. I went thru ONeil's SCCA
> ProRally licensing school. No such thing with RA
> now?

Was the ONeil SCCA licensing school similar to the 8-hour classroom session school that SCCA used to do (it was on the Friday before the August rally sprints around here) or was the Rally Driving School that he does now?

Driving schools count like events do now for meeting Novice (and Provisional) licensing requirements. The last SCCA Rally School around here was in 2001.

In my opinion, at least as described in the rules, I don't think the Tim O'Neil School counts enough.

What do other people think? Would you prefer to have to go to Tim O'Neil and get signed off to get a full license (to run Open cars) or would you prefer to ask for exception, run G2/P cars, etc. to do so.

alan

In my opinion, no one should be allowed to drive in a rally until they've demolished at least two cars while driving in a rally.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

hoche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion, no one should be allowed to drive
> in a rally until they've demolished at least two
> cars while driving in a rally.
>


Would destroying a rally car while driving TO a rally count? I'm not proud but I did that once... was not a 100% my fault, yes I was going too fast, yes it's a bad idea to have summer tires in freezing February, but what could I do since the shop owner where the car was forgot to tell me he used one of my rear calliper bolt for a customer car and did not replace it...

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Francois

Francois,

Was your RS the one at Sanair w/ wild scoops and the radiator mounted in the hatch?