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How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?

Posted by Aaron Luptak 
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shiza
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shiza
Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 13, 2013 06:13PM
If I can I will come down and run it if/when it happens. As long as it is enough miles to be worth the tow down.
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 13, 2013 06:46PM
Cage-less sprint?

Bad idea?......possibly...

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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 13, 2013 07:13PM
First Aaron thanks for puting in time and effort for a new event!
Even if if there are reduced cage requirements, it is still a big modification for average rallyx guy in his DD. I do feel that if more events like this spring up there will be more people willing to make partial cages and what not to cars in order to race them, instead of all or nothing rally car spec cage. It would be A LOT cheaper and produce a good middle ground race between rallyx and stage rally.

So a 4 pt cage (bolt in) ? or better
maybe mandatory rally tires and rims for debead protection?
4 pt harnesses (ignore exp dates? or with in 10 years?)
OK have to have some real race seats too. (also ignore exp dates)

just trying to think of a way to make it cheaper but still some what safe.
If there was a series people would start building cars just for this.

Curious what do you think a race like this would cost?

PS: IMHO without a cage someone who usually wears a flat brimmed hat will get hurt in a roll over.
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 13, 2013 08:19PM
Quote
Iowa999
Harnesses are a good issue to raise. The SCCA allows you to wear a 6-point harness in a cageless car, if you wish. Heck, I'm seen people in convertibles (e.g., CS Miatae) with 4-, 5-, and 6-points and not even a roll-bar, sliding the tail within 20 feet of a curb.

Harnesses are not allowed in SCCA in open-top vehicles without rollover-protection that terminates above the helmet.


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Aaron Luptak
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 13, 2013 09:30PM
Don't start thanking me until I actually make some real progress... (This fall will mark 2 years of working on this drinking smiley )

Price is the big question mark right now. If we're really looking at the "list price" for this particular venue, it probably won't happen - we'd need 30+ entries at the high end of my target prices.
For the "rallyx++" event, I'd really like to be asking < $200.
For a sprint event, on real roads, with NRS sanction/insurance, hoping to start at $350, with a goal of getting under $300 eventually. (And yes, we're looking into these too)

Mileage target is going to be ~50 miles. Considering the price points I'd like to hit, I think that should be pretty enticing, even for folks who have to tow.


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Iowa999
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 14, 2013 02:03AM
Quote
Creech
Harnesses are not allowed in SCCA in open-top vehicles without rollover-protection that terminates above the helmet.

Either that rule is younger than ten years or some people simply ignore it. Either way, thanks.
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 14, 2013 11:31AM
A lot of places, harness aren't allowed unless you have a cage, period.


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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 14, 2013 11:54AM
Quote
Aaron Luptak
Quote
Gravity Fed
well some thoughts

1. rallycross in idaho has had some roll overs
2. NHA doesnt have cages (as discussed)
3. berms kinda cause my last roll over experience.

1. yep - and in a lot of ways, this would be pretty similar to idaho rx, but longer. (and without the bs average time for scoring)

2. NHA is also the only hillclimb group that I know of that doesn't require cages. I know for sure that CHCA and SCCA require cages for hillclimbs. Pretty sure the folks in PA do as well.

3. will definitely be examining the berms to see how solid they are next time I'm out there. the "roads" are, for the most part, no more than 18 months old I think - so maybe they're soft? the berms aren't too big - no more than 8" tall in most places I think.
PHA (Pennsylvania Hillclimb Assoc) runs under SCCA time trial rules. Class determines whether or not you need a cage. 2 years ago, FTD at our biggest event (2.2 miles tarmac) was an Evo with just a bar in some kind of street class. Lots of cars with just bar. NEHA (New England Hillclimb Assoc) bases cage and/or bar requirement on breakout times. You'll see some interesting times posted by street cars with no bar.


Don Kennedy
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Iowa999
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 14, 2013 02:05PM
Jeremy D., right?
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 20, 2013 08:50AM
A place in Indiana is doing some sort of event that's basically an oversized RallyCross. However, the course looked like it could be pretty fast. I was going to throw gravel tires on my little Toyota pickup, but then I thought about what it would be like if I rolled it...which is a strong possibility with the way I drive. No thanks.
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 20, 2013 10:26AM
Quote
b00sted
A place in Indiana is doing some sort of event that's basically an oversized RallyCross. However, the course looked like it could be pretty fast. I was going to throw gravel tires on my little Toyota pickup, but then I thought about what it would be like if I rolled it...which is a strong possibility with the way I drive. No thanks.

Sooner,

or later, you will need to learn throttle control....
It's real easy. Just lift the toes off the pedal..
Gonna hafta work on that before you get on to important things...


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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 21, 2013 12:59PM
The videos I saw of the Indiana thing didn't look too spectacular. Some straight bits and some hills and some really tight parts.


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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 22, 2013 12:21AM
Quote
Pete
The videos I saw of the Indiana thing didn't look too spectacular. Some straight bits and some hills and some really tight parts.

Running around in a field, no matter how big, is not the same as being on a real road.


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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 22, 2013 10:03AM
Quote
wvonkessler
Quote
Pete
The videos I saw of the Indiana thing didn't look too spectacular. Some straight bits and some hills and some really tight parts.

Running around in a field, no matter how big, is not the same as being on a real road.

Exactly true. That is an issue with a couple of the rally schools put on. Speeds aren't enough to really learn car control from. You can earn principal and theory, but 20 mph and 100 mph are entirely diffferent dynamics.
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Re: How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?
June 23, 2013 04:33AM
Next weekend just down the road from me there is a rally on that has an introductory rally as part of the event.
No cages or logbooks required(but recommended) for non-4WD turbos
Limited stages
Helpful in getting the motorkhana/khancross/autocross guys out into some special stage rallying

Heres the link
http://rallyofthebay.com.au

Here are the general rules for the intro rally (called the Khumo Tyres Bay Meander)

Quote

2.3 Table 3 - Meander
2013 Kumho Tyres Bay Meander
Event Description
Event Type Introductory Rally
Status Introductory
Timing / Control Procedures A-A
Timing Resolution Forward Whole Minute
Entries - Maximum number of entries 20
Entry Fee $190
Licences

Driver
Level 2 Non Speed or Speed (L2NS, L2S), Clubman or
National Rally Driver
Civil Drivers Licence
Note: L2 licences will NOT be available on the day – must
be pre purchased from your car club

CoDriver
Level 2 Non Speed or Speed (L2NS, L2S),Clubman or
National Rally
Civil Drivers Licence or No Drive Declaration

Eligibility & Classes
Note Restrictions and all entries will only be accepted after review by the organisers

Vehicle Eligibility As Per Table 4 –
4WD vehicles manufactured on or after 1st Jan 1986 that
are turbocharged or supercharged must be the subject of
a current log book.
Be subject of a current and valid CAMS log book
ROPS required as per Schedule J
4WD vehicles manufactured on or after 1st Jan 1986 that
are turbocharged or supercharged must be fitted with
CAMS approved roll over protection and be the subject of
a current log book.

For all others a CAMS log book is not required
For all others ROPS is recommended but not compulsory

Classes - There are no classes for this event
Apparel As Per 2013 CAMS Manual
Schedule D 2.2 Rally – Gravel MultiClub
No of Sections: 2
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