Dirtfish?
Posted by ChrisKobi
"oh! you're the one!" Elite Moderator Location: Hazel Dell, WA Join Date: 02/22/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,390 Rally Car: 1974 Dodge Colt, under construction |
I usually say "stage rally" if I'm talking to someone who isn't regularly part of the rally world
or those pesky tsd people 
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Kevin Wesley Godlike Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/28/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 46 Rally Car: 1976 Dodge Dart Lite |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Typical JV... always need to have the last word... First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
See what I mean... First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
OMG, either you really don't 'get it' or your just playing silly bugger.
First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Jeff Reamer Elite Moderator Location: Marlette, Michigan Join Date: 08/14/2010 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 489 Rally Car: Subaru |
Robert Gobright Junior Moderator Location: White Center Seattle Join Date: 04/27/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,292 Rally Car: 91 VW GTI 8V |
John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
I was talking to a Marine guy just recently about him saving to go to school somewhere out East....now this guy was a proper grunt, 2 tours shooting up pashtoon terr'ists who seemed upset that we brought Freedom to their country so he wasn't in some supply depot pounding his pub. I axed him 'Of course you can field strip your M16 blind-folded right?" "Of course" Me "when they gave you that weapon did you just charge it and start blazing away, is that how you learned to field strip it blindfolded?" "No we stripped it and stripped it a thousand times under the clock, then eventually we stripped it blindfolded---under the clock" So it was learning new concept--then insane repetition to pound the lessons in---and a clock as incentive...." He himself filled in the rest "Uh great, so really how much can I expect to learn in 2 afternoons of some 20 something guys 'teaching me"? Duh I see." I asked "say you took half the money you were planning on spending on a 2 day thing--1250 bucks and bought 25-30 tires and you drove about 2 hours North of Midland (Michohaugan) and drove and drove and drove and burned up 30 tires, how much lessons you think you will pound into your skull then?" Robert, you know Chris, I know him, He needs LOTS and LOTS of hours of practice and he's not loaded with dough.. I seriously doubt the wisdom of this consumerist approach of believing buying knowledge in one weekend rather than spending time---in the end you must do the right thing, and after talking to dozens and dozens of guys in his postion who have called to discuss and order suspension virtually every one repeats 2 things "Uh, you gotta try and maintain momentum thru the corners" and "You GOTTA left foot brake to drive in the woods".. And personally, we've talked about this many times, I believe those are the wrong things to be drilling into noobs heads... And yet, after these boys spending their money, that is all they can remember/recall or say about the experience.....if i spend a cuple of thousand dollars I certainly hope i could remember more than a couple of bromides.. I know that all phases of rally have become in essence a consumer product where most guys imagine and are constantly told that the easiest way is to buy everything, including basic knowledge. .we see how well that works... 
One almost wants to ask: How did we do it without these hyper-expensive schools before? I think he's do better to study the Noble 8 Fold Path to Enlightenment, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path Like, namaste, doods. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Banned Super Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Classic 'this or that' mindset John.
Did you ask the Marine if they just gave him a loaded M-16 and said 'figure out how to field strip it and then just keep practicing' or if they walked him through the process and showed him how before putting him through repetitive drills to reinforce what he learned? (I suspect there was at least some instruction before he was told to sit and practice ad infinitum) Taking a Rally school doesn't mean you can't go out and practice. To some that might seem like I'm stating the obvious... but you don't seem to understand that so I guess it's not that obvious. NOBODY, not even someone with the flattest of brims, expects to go through a school and come out proficient at everything (or anything for that matter.) It takes practice, and seat time, we all know that. But... schools are great at identifying, and fixing, bad habits and showing what the desired outcome looks like. Some schools might say that you'll learn what you need to know to be a rally racer (yah, rally racer) but that is quite distinct from promising an overnight transformation or instant high-level skills. Schools are good for newbies. in the long run, students at reputable schools likely build good skills faster, cheaper and safer than simply burning through tires (and fenders) out in the woods without structure, focus or objective feedback. So, out of curiosity where would you focus the attention of lessons for a school if not maintaining momentum and LFB? 'Brake LATE and HARD in a straight line then accelerate as hard as you can in a straight line once you're through the corner'? But, we're back at the 'black/white' problem again. You avoid LFB as a tool like it will bite your nuts off, yet you once again seem to think that someone can't learn LFB at the same time as they learn to brake LATE and HARD coming into a corner. Also, you've said a few times that maintaining momentum is a bad thing to teach newbies but I don't think you've ever explained why. Why? First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
From everything I've heard, I'd recommend people have some solid seat-time at events before doing any training with Pat. I think he basically only offers one to one training - or small groups at the most - which brings the price up and if you have a basic skill set in hand you can get more bang for your buck. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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