Tall Pines "also ran" or "had more fun then anyone!"

The justification I heard from some old school rally guys from the midwest was that someone who is already out of the running is too dangerous because they no longer have to live by the "to finish first you must first finish" manta ray so are a time bomb waiting to explode.

Well done anyhow Matt. Fun story regardless of the ending.

---

Grant Hughes

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czwalga

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johnhuebbe
I had a similar "super-rally" thing happen to me at Ojibwe 2 years ago. The exhaust manifold cracked in half on stage 2. Instead of trying to continue and risk damaging the car due to fire, Mark and I decided it would be best to drive the car slowly to the service park, make the necessary repair, and ask the organizer to let us re-enter at the next service break. They agreed.

Sure, we could have tried to continue and drive the next 2 stages before service. Maybe our car would have caught fire and caused a huge delay in the rally. In the end, us re-entering the rally didn't cause the organizers to expend any more resources. We got a new time card at service just like all of the other competitors.

And what is up with these B.S. "well preped" comments from Keith. Shit happens sometimes that you would never think of checking beforehand.

Clearly if you would have done your due diligence during prep you would have had a x-ray machine looking for micro-cracks in the manifold before the race.

Or just telephoned ahead to the service crew and had them waiting with a new quick release manifold....yeah right.

Its bullshit... Maybe if we had some crustier Pommie members here who rallied in the 80s they could 'splain about "taking a maximum" on a stage or 2 because--tru stroy bro, a marshal at a BTRDA series event in North York Moors told me about going crazy roaring down a hill max revs, bent some pushrods......didn't plan ahead, so he skipped 2 stages "took a maximum", nicked into town got some pushrods at a garage, dropped them in and "just picked up the next stage---'Dat's whacher haz a Navi for--to get you there!"

One day event, about 168 cars and somehow those (nearly always) drunken lout Pommie Bastids can deal wif a car missing a stage or 2---and just don't bat an eye---show up at SS start and off ya go...

How can silly Pommie Bastids manage that on one day event with roughly 600% more cars, all pre computer days and people here be expected to believe that with a couple of dozen cars its a bunch of logistical brou ha ha.

I was born at night, but it tweren't LAST night.
Its bullshit, Party Line.....

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

FWIW:
This coming weekend at Big White, as clerk of the course I'll be doing what we can to allow people to continue running in the event.

As an example. If a car stops on stage and it looks like it'll take them significant time to get going again, fast closing will continue past and the team will be assigned a time for the stage and allowed to carry on with the next available stage. (being assigned appropriate times for missed stages.) This is an option available to the clerk of the course under the rules. The option for a team to 'elect' to miss stages isn't there and the applying this is at the Clerk's discretion. (IE: repeat offenders may not be afforded the opportunity to re-join depending on the circumstances)

As for the time delays... we run a lot of repeated and turn around stages, mostly because of the number of volunteers we get out to events. This weekend we're running one stage three times in a row, off to service, then a turn-around in and out, another service, an back to the turn-around for another in-out run.

We can all cherry pick examples of what would or wouldn't work, but from having been at the helm of Big White (and other) rallies here is a very real scenario for this weekend.

A car that needs extraction on stages 1,2, 4 or 6 runs a high risk of delaying the next stage. If we have cars pushing their 'max late' on each of those stages, we could find the schedule nearly 2 hours behind - which would mean 40km of cancelled stages for everyone.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Tom B

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Morison

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czwalga
I'd be pissed if I towed all the way there to have something like that happen then not be allowed back in.

Pissed at the organizers for not accommodating a poorly prepared car or pissed at the person who missed something like that during prep or re-prep leading up to the event?

colossal douchebaggery...you have got to fucking be kidding me.

Not certain I grok you here, Tom: toward whom is the "douchbaggery" comment aimed?

I'm not being facetious, sardonic, whatever - I just do not understand your response.

---

Parfois, on fait pas semblant!

I am:
I know:
I am from:

Nobody.
Nothing.
Nowhere.

Look us pommie bastards as you so eloquently put it, have been doing this shit for years, even with 140 plus cars at an event we still wanted to see all cars finish. BUT we also have a hell of a lot more volunteers from marshalls to Tech guys so we can do re-tech on the fly, and yes I've taken max so we could "borrow" a windscreen from another 205gti in the parking lot after rolling through a cichane! still finished We also run a lot of single venue stage events so the transits are redundant.

Yours

Mr Pommie Bastard.

---

Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.

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MattP
Look us pommie bastards as you so eloquently put it, have been doing this shit for years, even with 140 plus cars at an event we still wanted to see all cars finish. BUT we also have a hell of a lot more volunteers from marshalls to Tech guys so we can do re-tech on the fly, and yes I've taken max so we could "borrow" a windscreen from another 205gti in the parking lot after rolling through a cichane! still finished We also run a lot of single venue stage events so the transits are redundant.

Yours

Mr Pommie Bastard.

Tis a lot nicer than what I get called: Bleeding Belgian Bastard...

(Engleski is supposedly second language for me---Spanish was first and the Anglanti I learned way probably strongly influence by the fact me dear mum was born in Trenchtown, Jamaica, mon. And when we were little ninos Auntie Lilly was always over and she was like straight outta some Rasta neighborhood----poor me. Then I emigrated to Sweden when I was 17 and next 13 years only serious Anglais I speak was with some Aussies and some Ulstermen....Evidently it made a strong impact on my young impressionable mind so there's still 30 years later some residual "after effects" of those Aussies and Ulstermen....When I lived in Notting Hill and was working under the table nobody EVER asked if I was a fawkin Yank so I asked my boss (who was from up Norf) and he said in high sarcasm "You silly twit, it is assumed you're from somewhere in Ireland or just across the water---and just by the way the word is "Fuck" and NOT FAWK..Come on! try and say it, I know ya can uh uh fuck--try it!" I failed, poor me..)

And you're right there's whole battalions more marshals, more "Oafish-als" but come on wif 20-30 cars total AND THE WILL TO, this could change in the snap of the fingers..
Its like so much, crap gets defended just cause so many like to dig the heels in regardless. And it's easier.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

What's a "pommie?"

An Aussie term of endearment for an Englishman!

A bit like Limey is for Americans

---

Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.

Guys,

The comments about "super rally" or just plain continuing to run after an "easy" DNF aren't falling on deaf ears! Trust me, it's one thing that I've pushed for when i can, and as Keith mentioned there are discussions taking place.

I do hope we can get something "official" into place, as some organizers or stewards have been trying, but it has been very inconsistent.

I do agree it is a bit silly that driving on 3 wheels, and completing stages and transits is just dangerous sometimes, but technically legal...and they can continue. But doing the smart thing, and skipping a stage, and getting back to fix the car properly or have your team meet you to be safe to everyone, then continueing even if you still DNF but get the seat time is illegal.

All that said, please fire me off emails....its far easier to quantify and keep track of things there! (competitorrep at carsrally dot ca)

---

Chris

Chris,

Done

Thanks!

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Creech

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Tom B

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Morison

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czwalga
I'd be pissed if I towed all the way there to have something like that happen then not be allowed back in.

Pissed at the organizers for not accommodating a poorly prepared car or pissed at the person who missed something like that during prep or re-prep leading up to the event?

colossal douchebaggery...you have got to fucking be kidding me.

Not certain I grok you here, Tom: toward whom is the "douchbaggery" comment aimed?

I'm not being facetious, sardonic, whatever - I just do not understand your response.

My response is for Morison and his baiting bullshit...he is a true prick. I'm right there with you, I'd be pissed too if I couldn't run the rest of the event.

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

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Do It Sidewayz


I do hope we can get something "official" into place, as some organizers or stewards have been trying, but it has been very inconsistent.

Why do it have to be official and consistent. Do not the stewards and clerk of the course have brains can they not make a judgement call about what to do? The times I have run Pines it is has more skilled volunteers than any rally I have attended in North America, save the WRC event in Mexico. But not all events are as lucky.

Rather than trying to put together a "rule" that tells everyone exactly what to do and try and account for every possible DNF / want to restart scenario. The rule could be open to the discretion of the clerk or steward or Jesus or whoever. And the rule should address intent.

Having read a lot of rule books for racing it appears that most of them are written with the assumption that the competitor is going to try lie and cheat at every possible moment, and therefore cannot be trusted at any time. This is fine for the factory teams, large budget teams that just want to win. But in this case where the competition is over why not put the responsibility of having a safe car on the competitor. If they say its safe now then let them go.

The Canadian Rules presently allow the organisers to have someone be instructed to be given an assigned time, be re-directed - including missing a stage - and rejoin the rally later at the organizer's discretion. I expect I'll be using that this weekend.

What it doesn't allow is for a team to make that decision unilaterally.

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15.13.1 When a special stage has to be stopped for any reason whatsoever before the last crew has covered it, a classification for the stage may nevertheless be established by allocating to each crew which has been affected by the circumstances of the interruption, the slowest time set before the stage was stopped or the fastest time set by a car that has subsequently completed the stage after the blockage has been cleared if there was no time set before the stage was stopped. Under exceptional circumstances, another time that is deemed appropriate may be assigned. An organiser, for safety considerations or for the purpose of clearing the route, may instruct a crew to transit through any stage or to take an alternate route. In the case of an alternate route being given exclusion under NRR 17.6 (missing a control) does not apply.

This doesn't quite match the intent of the passed rule change and is being cleaned up for next year's book, as I understand it.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2013 01:33PM by Morison.

I want to be very clear... I felt the organizers I spoke with tried hard to to find a way on our behalf - within the current rule set - to let us re join if we could fix the car. I was pretty sure we were going to be back in, and we were gearing up to fix it.

15.13.1 was I think mentioned, but... I cleared the stage! we were "on transit" when I went off, as in we were sideways through the finish control, and went of on the transit side (although I guess you could say we were still on stage as we had not made it to control).

I completely understand why it's an issue, and we need a good "common sense" rule that would allow a car to re-enter, but it can't just be "organizers discretion" because that will never work.