Idaho 2014

http://www.dynalook.com/8th-european-ls-dyna-conference/session-1/Session1_Paper2.pdf

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NoCoast
This discussion again... face palm. .....
..

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

I've been successfully avoiding this place, but I'm posting now because I hope this information will be helpful to others.

Here are two pictures of the cage in Brian's (my old) car. Matches Hoche's description, but a picture is worth a few extra words.


Outside view


The sill bar was really tight, but not welded to the sill. I could fit a zip tie few in some places, but just barely.

Inside View


The cage was really well built by Judd Weld. I heard that he doesn't build them anymore, which is a shame.

I haven't seen any photos yet of the cage after the impact, but I'd love to compare them with the above shots.

Doug

where are the results posted for this rally? Who one the thing?

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

The link on the event's home page appears to be broken, but you can find results here:

http://www.rallydata.com/Scoring_ColdFusion/Display_Scoreboard.cfm?CFID=81822617&CFTOKEN=95855955

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Self-righteous douche canoe

We've had one 2wd death here, years back. So much of it is just luck or bad luck.

There is only so much room in a rally car for energy absorption on a side impact. FIA has been studying pretty diligently since the Marku Martin incident (I think). A guy needs some metal deformation to absorb energy but you need a line in the sand where you just have to stop the bending to protect tissue and bones as much as possible. There is no one answer that covers all situations. High dollar seats such as NASCAR have developed are nice, door impact material..honeycomb stuff, really be nice if all the cars were a foot wider also.

We most certainly accept seat mounts welded to the cage, in either direction. I kind of like to add a lower transverse bar in the main hoop to stop the legs from moving in also.

Roof bars..looking at the wreck and thing about what Tony said, the X in the roof can also add to the strength of the corner junctions, all four of them. If the 1/2 lateral were to break or fracture an X junction could certainly add some more material before stuff stated heading inward. I really think todays cages are so much better than 20 years ago, especially with the much faster cars we have now...not to mention the added weight that is the norm.

With respect the seat mounting:

In this particular case, I'm pretty sure that changing the mounting to the cage would've had only minimal affect on the results. See, you guys are all looking at it wrong and assuming that one deflected more because it was stronger than the other, and that tying the two of them together would have made them stronger and resulted in less deflection or something like that.

Instead, what happened was that the transverse seat mounts braced the car sill against the center hump, and that's why the car sill didn't move as much as the cage sill. Moving the mounts to the cage would've just braced the cage. Tying the sill and the cage together would have just kept them from moving independently. The point is that the occupant's decel was as much a function of the crush rate of the hump as what it was attached to on the outside edge of the car.

I couldn't really see the state of the upper sill bar where it went by the seat, but I remember it being somewhat higher than is shown in Doug's picture, so I think it got bowed up appreciably.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Massive Subaru presence looking at the results, wow.

Massive Golf presence. I don't remember having seen so many.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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heymagic
Massive Subaru presence looking at the results, wow.

25 out of 61 isn't even half..
Most events last 10 years have seen 50 to 60% at least.

6 Golves outta 61....meh, OK..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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john vanlandingham

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heymagic
Massive Subaru presence looking at the results, wow.

25 out of 61 isn't even half..
Most events last 10 years have seen 50 to 60% at least.

6 Golves outta 61....meh, OK..

That would be 52 cars , pretty much 50% and 10 out of the top 12. Can't you ever post anything without being such a Debbie Downer? Jeebus, not like anyone noted the BMWs out number the Volvos 3 to 2 or Merkurs 3 to 1.. or 1/2 the Volvos are the totally unsuitable 122s

Pretty interesting mix of cars and in spite of what you proclaim on SS Subes apparently aren't passe' just yet.

So ya, good VW turnout Robert. Was the 122 a really clean old grey one that I just logged?

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john vanlandingham
Most events last 10 years have seen 50 to 60% at least.

If you bothered to look outside your back yard you' see that isn't even close to being true. I'm sure you can find some F-Cup entry lists that would show more volvos than subarus taking to the stages...

Or, are you OK with a selective view of the sport... in which case looking at the event's history is more relevant.

2014: 48% of the 54 car entry is Subaru (80% of the top 10 cars, 73% of the top 15...40% of the DNFs)
2013: 38% of 34 entries
2012: 43% of 39
2011: 72% of 18*
2010: 21% of 28
2009: 32% of 37
2008: 53% of 19*

*abnormally low entries

So in other words... yah, a pretty good year for subrau entries at Idaho. Why the need to pooh pooh it?

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I don't post here much, but this this is important to me. I was codriving the second car that actually stopped on scene... I am still very shook up about it being that Brian and Krista are very good friends of mine and it scared the crap out of me seeing the car like it was.

We got redcrossed about a quarter mile before where they were by a marshall. I was aware of the incident the day before and was unsure if it was real or not. I asked what was going on. He said a car hit a tree. I then asked where it was. He wasn't exactly sure and was on a two way radio trying to find out what was going on and not totally paying attention to me. I then asked if it was the car in front of us (Dave Clark) and he didn't know. After not getting the right answers we left and proceeded down the stage. We came up on Krista walking around like a Zombie holding the redcross. Brian was still in the car. Knowing that there were several cars between us we assumed someone had already gone to radio so I took over redcrossing the stage from Krista and Nate helped Dave. Garth and Russ in the Saab were the car behind us and also got stopped by the same marshall that told them to transit the stage as did multiple other cars. They went by us and to the finish which was the next radio point. They had no Idea what was going on at the finish. It wasn't until Kristen and Janice Tabor got to the scene and got out there Ham that Sweep was notified it was medical. It felt like an hour before they got there. I think it was really 20 minutes or so. I'm very thankful that Brian and Krista are mostly ok. I'm extremely unhappy about how all of it went though. I have no hard feelings for Idaho Rally or the two cars that went past them. The organizers and event are awesome and I don't really know what happened with those cars. Something needs to change though.

As far as the seat being tied to the cage. I think it being tied to the sill saved Brian's life. I've looked at the car a little and it was very hard for me to do. The sill is very deformed which you can see in the pics. What you cant see it the tunnel is also very deformed. Both seats are now touching each other and we had to cut the driveline to get the car to roll into the trailer.

Joel I feel for you man that you had to deal with that situation. Dave and I talked on the phone yesterday, and I too feel that something needs to change. It took sweep 7 minutes to reach the scene after they were called in, but it was nearly 30 minutes total time after the crash.

Is it worker training? entrant training? I think a bit of both. The marshal on the scene had a hand held radio. Maybe it is as simple as a laminated incedent card for all workers and teams. Simple flow chart stuff. Crashed car? injuries? Incoherent co-driver wandering the road? Send medical.

Chris I was really looking forward to hearing a flat six out on stage...

Thanks Sean. I agree that both the workers and entrants need more training. It's very important. It worked out this time, but it may not in future. I've been thinking about the workers having a redcross since it happened and I'm not sure they should. Getting stopped before the accident should not have happened. As competitors we rely on each other to make sure we're safe and if we can't get to the scene that wont happen.

Sweep did an awesome Job getting there so fast and I'm very thankful we have all those awesome people looking out for us.