Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!

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fiasco

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RALLYRS

What's the XR need?

Lemons XR4:

• Needs engine and a spare. I've nuked all but one of my 2.3T Frods for a variety of issues, mostly having to do with either leaning the sucker out and melting pistons or having the oil leak out of some ancient fitting at high velocity and making rotating assemblies not rotate. Kind of sick of blowing up the stock motor, but can't come up with anything else that's cheap and makes enough power to not be annoying on the track (slower than stock sucks).
• Then rust repairs.
• Then reinstall the fuel tank or put a cell in it.
• Then a fire system, because insurance companies.
• And belts. And probably a seat.

Yeah, I should just haul the mess to Schnitzers and buy a nice bottle of bourbon with the proceeds.

Then there's the street XR4.

• Limited slip (used 7" viscous) doesn't seem to choooch anymore.
• Three brake calipers are frozen.
• It'll only make 7 lbs. of boost for some reason (suspect the aftermarket waste gate actuator).
• The JVABs in the front need a less ghetto top mount system than currently installed (I got the parts in the fall).
• The control arms need replacing.

And it's in storage. But since we're supposed to get 6" of snow tomorrow, I'm fine with that.

I still like the idea of a Naturally aspirated duratec(2.0 or 2.3 or 2.5) swap in an XR.

It seems like most of the people who start the swap fizzle on it though....

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RALLYRS

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Jens

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RALLYRS
.....

And anyone else out there?

What are you guys doing?

.....
.

1. Working on figuring out what version of Medicare I'm signing up for this month so I can get the most from the taxes you guys pay

2. Finish stuffing the wiring and switch to my Dakota Digital ECD 100 https://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=1208/mode=prod/prd1208.htm that I installed in my RX-7 V8 car last summer after changing from a T-5 to a T-56 transmission.

3. Clean and lube my RX-7 V8 moonroof mechanism.

4. Rebuild the carburetor from my E-350 ambulance (formerly my tow vehicle).

5. Finish throwing out old rally photos, stickers, etc.

Holy crap a Jens post!!

V8 RX7 sounds like fun!

Ford or GM power?

Any pics?

.

1987 RX-7 (formerly a factory Turbo II)
Not one bit of rust under/in/on it. The car came from the southwest, and has never seen snow and salt. I rarely drive it in the rain.

1986 GM 305 from a Trans Am. Not lots of horsepower, but I didn't want much when I built it in 2001, and still don't want to have to deal with stressing the limited slip, axles, etc. Sometimes I think of putting in a LS engine, but then I slap myself and tell myself to enjoy what I built and not to start another project.

I don't have any suitable photos at this time.

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RALLYRS

I still like the idea of a Naturally aspirated duratec(2.0 or 2.3 or 2.5) swap in an XR.

It seems like most of the people who start the swap fizzle on it though....

I'm probably going to be doing a 2.0 swap in one of the RX-7s soonish.

I figure the cost of the engine is basically free (it will be sold to me for the price of one (1) fifth of fine whiskey of my choosing, so of course it will be Bulleit 12 because that is what we serve in this house) and I can do ITBs for only $800ish and that takes care of the RWD manifold problem. When I get bored with that, rods and pistons and cams are plentiful and the sky's the limit.

Extra easy factor because being an RX-7, you just need to grab a 5-speed trans from an "NC" Miata and change the tailhousing, and the drivetrain is sorted.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

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Pete

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RALLYRS

I still like the idea of a Naturally aspirated duratec(2.0 or 2.3 or 2.5) swap in an XR.

It seems like most of the people who start the swap fizzle on it though....

I'm probably going to be doing a 2.0 swap in one of the RX-7s soonish.

I figure the cost of the engine is basically free (it will be sold to me for the price of one (1) fifth of fine whiskey of my choosing, so of course it will be Bulleit 12 because that is what we serve in this house) and I can do ITBs for only $800ish and that takes care of the RWD manifold problem. When I get bored with that, rods and pistons and cams are plentiful and the sky's the limit.

Extra easy factor because being an RX-7, you just need to grab a 5-speed trans from an "NC" Miata and change the tailhousing, and the drivetrain is sorted.

No more spinning triangles?

Has the duratec been swapped into an rx7 befo?

What is your ITB setup and ecu going to be?

.

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Find me some good 12A rotors and I can build an engine. I have about nine sets and they are all hammered-out junk.

If it's been done before, I dunno and duncare. I've done engine swaps before so I'll treat it as such. Primarily I also want to do things like retain the air conditioning, which most Internet swap weirdos don't do, because they don't like driving their cars or something.

There's a shop somewhere in the US that imports what I think are Jenvey throttle bodies, cheaper than you can buy from overseas. The only real sticking point is if they will clear the brake master cylinder/booster, but I've already got the pedal box set up for manual brakes so that's a relatively easy issue to deal with.

The alternative swap is a complete 1.6 Miata drivetrain, which probably makes the most "sense" because a 1.6 Miata engine feels just like an early 12A, but, gosh, why do it simple when you can do it complicated.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2020 01:34PM by Pete.

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Pete
Extra easy factor because being an RX-7, you just need to grab a 5-speed trans from an "NC" Miata and change the tailhousing, and the drivetrain is sorted.

Is the engine from a FWD car or RWD? Water fitting on the back of the head kinda sucks on the FWD engines, but the RWD ones bolt on.

Just a heads up, match the starter and flywheel. The NC miata flywheel has the starter ring gear in a drastically different position than the Ford flywheel.

I scrapped a 2.3 Ranger engine that windowed its block a while back and kept the water manifold assembly. Oil pan was trash so it went back to the junkyard.

I've been looking into this swap for just a little bit of time, you see...

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

OMG! It's Alive! It's Alive!

I guess I'm a few days late to the party...

Non-phishing posts!

We have a rally sprint series (in Ontario) that is gaining momentum... hoping it will still go with this, if the world doesn't plunge into apocalyptic doom. I'm supposed to be re-sorting the cobbled together dry sump so it doesn't blow up and send the whole sump out the side of the block in a split second... argh, still haven't even dug into it since last year.

Have enough work-from-home stuff, that I'm not getting any of the projects I thought I would get to started (see above)! (not that I'm making any income as usual... )

Hang in there folks! good to hear a few still drop in here time to time!

yeah! WTH is JVL?

I wonder if a DuraMZR 2.5 NA could easily be dropped into the ExRat Lemon. We bounced around the idea of the NA 2.3 Lima with a big ass carb, but then when I realized what the race gas would cost to run a Lemons race would cost...plan B...drop a slightly more modern SLAAB Turbo with the DI shit in it. But I start thinking snails, and oil lines, and more 20+ year old leaky shit running hard for 14+ hours...

I dunno. I have enough beer to get a vision quest going tonight....

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

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Mad Matt F
OMG! It's Alive! It's Alive!

I guess I'm a few days late to the party...

Non-phishing posts!

We have a rally sprint series (in Ontario) that is gaining momentum... hoping it will still go with this, if the world doesn't plunge into apocalyptic doom. I'm supposed to be re-sorting the cobbled together dry sump so it doesn't blow up and send the whole sump out the side of the block in a split second... argh, still haven't even dug into it since last year.

Have enough work-from-home stuff, that I'm not getting any of the projects I thought I would get to started (see above)! (not that I'm making any income as usual... )

Hang in there folks! good to hear a few still drop in here time to time!

yeah! WTH is JVL?

Hey Matt-hope that rally sprint series takes off and that dry sump setup helps keep the Justy engine in one piece.

.

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Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

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Quote
fiasco
I wonder if a DuraMZR 2.5 NA could easily be dropped into the ExRat Lemon. We bounced around the idea of the NA 2.3 Lima with a big ass carb, but then when I realized what the race gas would cost to run a Lemons race would cost...plan B...drop a slightly more modern SLAAB Turbo with the DI shit in it. But I start thinking snails, and oil lines, and more 20+ year old leaky shit running hard for 14+ hours...

I dunno. I have enough beer to get a vision quest going tonight....

Depends what you define as "easy" I guess.

I'm sure you've seen this thread(turbo planned for it-not NA- but of course that really doesn't matter)-Warning JVL content:

http://forum.merkurclub.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=10278&sid=178bfb02daa6b7d4e92a4a88952de30e

Another one-2.3 duratec swap initially,then decided 2.5 instead(perhaps fizzled-I think he sold the car- but some decent info)by Karl-owner of Massive Speed system in ChiTown who sold me my 2.5 swap goodies for the Focus engine swap I'll probably never do.

http://forums.merkurclub.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20151

Another crusty old thread:

http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9815

Especially if you are just going to drop a boneyard engine in without rebuilding, 2.5 is the way to go because of the obvious torks/hp upgrade over 2.0 and 2.3.

Also,the stock 2.5's(and the 2.0's) aren't known for grenading for no apparent reason.

The Ford 2.3 duratecs are not infamous for that(many out there are in the 200,000+ mileage running strong),but a few have unexplainably gone kaboom(rod out the side of block usually for no apparent reason).

Most of those seem to be in the Fusions for some reason.

Not enough to worry about that much-I recently picked up another 2.3 Focus for a cheap dd.

Do NOT buy the Mazda Japanese built MZR 2.3 NA engine as for some reason with those it's not a matter of it but when it grenades.

If you frequent the Mazda forums you will see what I mean...they start using oil..like 1 quart every 2 weeks then about the time your o2 sensors foul out and your cat is plugged kaboom!

We dumped our 2005 Mazda 3 with 2.3 after it started using the oil but before it blew.

My boss just bought another 2005 Mazda3 with the 2.5 swap already done as the 2.3 in it grenaded right on cue.

It drives nice,although with the low end torque it has now(and wrong wheel drive of course!),first and even 2nd gear are a bit traction challenged,even on the street.

I'm sure the cheapo chinese tires on there aren't exactly helping with that though.

But.... if you go Ford or Mazda 2.5 duratec/MZR and stay injected you could just stick with the restrictive ranger intake or better yet get one that actually matches the HUGE intake ports on the 2.5.

Go Brazilian:

http://www.massivespeedsystem.com/genuine-ford-parts/intake-manifold/mcin16408/i-7471047.aspx

Of course there are or were some aftermarket sheet manifold for carbed and injected out there for $$$ if you look.

Also-hang out in the mX-5 forums for info- 2.5 swap is pretty common now.

Someone correct me if wrong-but attached pics below(for inspiration)of an xr4i from across the pond appear to show a sweet looking Duratec swap-but not using COP.

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Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 01:55PM by RALLYRS.

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fiasco
COVID-19 will reduce the population and open more stage roads and beater rally car candidates?
#nevertoosoon

Yeah. Rally will be rid of the old farts. Then rally can progress to become like NASCAR with pretty painted trailers, pretty stickers, permanent car numbers, big dollar factory teams, and television. Oh wait.......

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fiasco
I wonder if a DuraMZR 2.5 NA could easily be dropped into the ExRat Lemon. We bounced around the idea of the NA 2.3 Lima with a big ass carb, but then when I realized what the race gas would cost to run a Lemons race would cost...plan B...drop a slightly more modern SLAAB Turbo with the DI shit in it. But I start thinking snails, and oil lines, and more 20+ year old leaky shit running hard for 14+ hours...

I dunno. I have enough beer to get a vision quest going tonight....

I'm not sure the 2.5 would clear the hood. The 2.5 is taller than the 2.0, and the 2.0 in Dave's rally car is pretty close to the hood. That's with using a custom oil pan and pickup to get it really close to the crossmember, and cutting the firewall to move the engine back a bit as well.

Also, the Miata trans shifter sticks up at the very front of the tunnel opening. T5 fit's much better, but still not great.

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culberro

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fiasco
I wonder if a DuraMZR 2.5 NA could easily be dropped into the ExRat Lemon. We bounced around the idea of the NA 2.3 Lima with a big ass carb, but then when I realized what the race gas would cost to run a Lemons race would cost...plan B...drop a slightly more modern SLAAB Turbo with the DI shit in it. But I start thinking snails, and oil lines, and more 20+ year old leaky shit running hard for 14+ hours...

I dunno. I have enough beer to get a vision quest going tonight....

I'm not sure the 2.5 would clear the hood. The 2.5 is taller than the 2.0, and the 2.0 in Dave's rally car is pretty close to the hood. That's with using a custom oil pan and pickup to get it really close to the crossmember, and cutting the firewall to move the engine back a bit as well.

Also, the Miata trans shifter sticks up at the very front of the tunnel opening. T5 fit's much better, but still not great.

Robert, it’s true that the 2.5(and the 2.3 which is identical height)is taller than 2.0 and hood clearance could be an issue.

If you click on the merkurforum links I posted above you can see the discussion pertaining to this.

So the Miata trans is a no go?

T5 bad but still doable?

I wonder how bad the ranger truck(I know-truck transmission-groan!)gearbox would be as far as shifter locations and ratios?

---

................................................. .....................

Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

We still have Specialstage & RallyAnarchy.

Post up Here:

https://rallyanarchy.com/phorum/posting.php

and here:

https://www.specialstage.com/forums/forum.php

Quote
RALLYRS

Quote
culberro

Quote
fiasco
I wonder if a DuraMZR 2.5 NA could easily be dropped into the ExRat Lemon. We bounced around the idea of the NA 2.3 Lima with a big ass carb, but then when I realized what the race gas would cost to run a Lemons race would cost...plan B...drop a slightly more modern SLAAB Turbo with the DI shit in it. But I start thinking snails, and oil lines, and more 20+ year old leaky shit running hard for 14+ hours...

I dunno. I have enough beer to get a vision quest going tonight....

I'm not sure the 2.5 would clear the hood. The 2.5 is taller than the 2.0, and the 2.0 in Dave's rally car is pretty close to the hood. That's with using a custom oil pan and pickup to get it really close to the crossmember, and cutting the firewall to move the engine back a bit as well.

Also, the Miata trans shifter sticks up at the very front of the tunnel opening. T5 fit's much better, but still not great.

Robert, it’s true that the 2.5(and the 2.3 which is identical height)is taller than 2.0 and hood clearance could be an issue.

If you click on the merkurforum links I posted above you can see the discussion pertaining to this.

So the Miata trans is a no go?

T5 bad but still doable?

I wonder how bad the ranger truck(I know-truck transmission-groan!)gearbox would be as far as shifter locations and ratios?

I can confirm that the Ranger ratios are crap, 1st is almost useless and the gap been 4/5 isn't much better.
That box is the week point of the Rally Ranger, also given that the bell housing and box are a one piece unless the bolt pattern is the box is a non starter.

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Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.