Super Production build?

gilbrock Wrote:
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> Tanner's car is in it.
> They're saying they get over 500 ft lbs of
> torque....insane.
>
>

w/ a 34mm restrictor in a 2.5L subie? WHP on a real dyno? NFW... W/o restrictor and crank HP maybe...

Ok, so my two cents: I think SP is the wrong way to go in US rally. I think the sport needs a sound NA class instead, and make the 2.2L OBS the next Golf.

A few other comments....

You don't need to run rear STI diff & hubs to run STI 6MT; just change center dif to 1:1 and use legacy wagon drive shaft. 6mt are available for ~$3K, not too hard to find Ted.

And, according to my wacky vegan buddy, who has tuned dozens of turbo'd rally cars in the north east, a 2.5L has only very slight marginal HP performance gains over over 2.0L, both w/ a 34mm restrictor in place. In his opinion, no way worth migrating to to gain a competitive advantage, better off buying more seat time at TON...

Subie 4 pot brake allowance will be nice, easier to change pads and more rear bias, but no much more stopping power.

---

Toltec Rally Team
"what would Steve Zissou do?"

I think you are under-estimating the amount of cubic dollars thrown at the top cars in RA...there is no doubt in my mind these cars are making well over 500 ft lbs

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

I've got a dyno sheet from a vsc top build that says 400 ft lbs, and they said that was a strong engine, didnt break 300hp though. This is from a 2 liter bored and stroked to 2.35l. But I wouldnt be surprised if the ones in their own cars make a little more, 450 max though. Pinker is selling an engine on the SS classifieds that he says makes 450 ft lbs, his setup is quite different than a vsc car. You should try driving one with a 40mm restrictor, hooo leee sheeet!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2008 06:21AM by Carl S.

well, now I want to know what turbo/restrictor setup they're using to get that much wtq before things get choked up by the restrictor.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Go to a Rally America event and look under the hood.

---

Grant Hughes

Jon Burke Wrote:
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> well, now I want to know what turbo/restrictor
> setup they're using to get that much wtq before
> things get choked up by the restrictor.
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10


umm...pretty easy.

race fuel + lots of boost at LOW rpms = TORQUE in a big way.

They also run a pile of compression.

---

Chris

Redrum,
Do the 2.5 liter motors make more torque?

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

tedm Wrote:
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> Redrum,
> Do the 2.5 liter motors make more torque?

Of course they can and should and would if whoever driving them actually stomped the gas down fully all the time, but realistically who in North America is stomping on the gas in their 2 liter cars hard all the time.

Judging how "the Big Boys" are half an hour after the top GropeN cars when they're doing WRC under Super rally rules -----basically they're fawked for the OA result so they can drive as hard as they want----even they don't really need more motor, they need more wellie!

And that's available right at the end of your leg!
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Fawking, eh, JV. Log in as yourself!

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

fiasco Wrote:
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> Fawking, eh, JV. Log in as yourself!

How'd youse knows it hain't Kevvi?
He's as radical as I's is.>
> Andrew Steere, 1973
> Lyndeborough, NH
> KB1PJY

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well, now I want to know what turbo/restrictor
> setup they're using to get that much wtq before
> things get choked up by the restrictor.
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10

Prodrive 34mm restrictor (could be yours for a scant $700!)
VF36 twinscroll
stock manifolds/uppipe
Symms exhaust
Stock cams

Thats on the vermont cars. And the 400tq is on an engine dyno, not at the wheels.

As far as Pinker's setup heres what his ad says:

"built from brand new 2.5 EJ257 shortblock with carillo rods and wiseco pistons

JDM 2 litre heads with group A piper cams
prodrive baffled sump

good for 300 hp and 450 ft/lbs torque with 34mm

500 miles only

GEMS ECU avaliable to go with it"

The rest you'd have to ask him.








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2008 07:51PM by Carl S.

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Redrum,
> Do the 2.5 liter motors make more torque?
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

Before you add a 34mm yes, ~40ft/lbs and 500 rpms to left on a dyno sheet.

The 2006 and newer 2.5L WRX has a sand bagged spec; they putdown ~210whp and 220ft/lbs (on a Dyno Dynamics) Driveline loss is ~60hp spec is 230hp, so it don't add up.

But, I have not seen/compared dyno sheets from a 34mm restricted 2.5L and 2.0L, but Franz says its negligible in HP and Tq, you are still sucking through the same size straw. Having witnessed a few dozens of his tunes, I trust his judgement.

IMO the only hard logic to go 2.5L is to run a 2008 and get the stout contingency

Cheers

PS 400 tq on an engine dyno is 340 to the wheels. Street guys (w/o a restrictor) have very tough time hitting 500wtq, Most who get it, are running water-meth and a stroker kit.

---

Toltec Rally Team
"what would Steve Zissou do?"

What do WRC use for fuel again? I heard somewhere that they were seeing over 600ft-lb at the flywheel.

(From a friggin' two liter)

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

If a properly funded team (not me) is going to fork out huge $ for a fresh build, late model shell, sti 6 speed, proper diffs, blah, blah, blah, it would be well worth knowing which block to go with.

The 2.5 liter block should be lighter, no?

Sti's have better intercoolers, no?

Better turbo?

And intercooler waterspray, stock, no?

Why not have the dude in Lawrence boost a Cadillac?

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a properly funded team (not me) is going to
> fork out huge $ for a fresh build, late model
> shell, sti 6 speed, proper diffs, blah, blah,
> blah, it would be well worth knowing which block
> to go with.
>
> The 2.5 liter block should be lighter, no?
>
no it's heavier. not by much though.

> Sti's have better intercoolers, no?
marginally. they split open under big boost.

>
> Better turbo?
there are much better turbos.


> And intercooler waterspray, stock, no?
you'd want some real engine management. mine controls waterspray and even water injection if i wanted.
> Why not have the dude in Lawrence boost a
> Cadillac?
>
>
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

---

Gone fishing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2008 09:07AM by david amor.