Fuel Cells Revisited

No. That won't fly. Even if you use a double wall filler hose encased in metal, it won't pass.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Ohhh... I re read your post. so basically, you've got no holes on top except for inside the little oval box and then thats sealed, and then you quick connect a filler "probe" (kinda like an airplane haha ) into it, right?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Yup.

It's all probey 'n stuff.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

I sent Mike Hurst an email with the picture an all. Here is his reply, and the original email

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The plan looks ok to me, with 2 items added:


1. Lock wire the "cap that never comes off" (or weld up the hole)


2. Don't firmly attach the filler to an outer body panel of the car, In a crash you need that hose to stay intact and sealed instead of separating from the cell, so make a mount between the fill end of the hose and the body that will fail easily if the body panel is torn away in a big crash.


Mike Hurst
Technical Director
Rally America


Rally America rules: http://rally-america.com/rules.php




On Nov 18, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Timm Von Derau wrote:


Hello,

I'm trying to avoid building a new "wall" type bulkead in my car, and was wondering if this idea would work. The fill plate is a multithread 2 1/4 cap, so its not a 1/4 turn or quick release fill cap. The idea would be seal the red box up, seal the fillplate/bladder to the lid, and then refill via a AN braided hose, same grade you'd use inside the cabin (but bigger, like -20 or 16) from outside the car. I've attached a picture to show you what i mean. All pumps would either be internal, or if external, they would be sealed in a little box too, with bulkhead fittings going into the box, and back out. The vent fitting would be piped outside of the vehicle too.

If this is NOT legal (which unfortunently, Ive heard it might not be) could you offer suggestions to get this kind of effect? The rules state the full on extra firewall/bulkhead as the ALTERNATIVE. I'm trying to figure out the primary means of seperating the bladder from the occupants.


Thank you, I look forward to your suggestions,

Timm Von Derau<fuel cell proposal.bmp>

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Lurch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yup.
>
> It's all probey 'n stuff.
>
> Lurch
> Eric Burmeister
> Greatlakesknowitallatlarge
> Dee-troit
> Still work at Ford...for now...check back
> tomorrow.
> Not anymore. Fired.


Cool idea, how did you come up with it?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

The design above that you posted and Mike approved was considered "adequate" (with the break-away hose-not mounted to the fender) when I was designing my system, but in subsequent emails we went back and forth and came up with this the probey thing and he was happier with it (at the time). That's exactly why I told you to talk directly to him and don't go just on forums.

Here's where the conversation started. It finished with lots of screen dumps being emailed before I came up with the probey.

http://www.rally-america.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1239&;

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Ahh. Cool. Thanks Eric!

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Presumably an in-tank pump gets around the separate sealed box issue -- ATL's system looks a little spendy but simple enough that it could be cloned in sheet metal (perhaps with a bit of UHMW to protect the bottom of the bladder) and expanded to include a second, redundant, pump.

Cheers, Ted

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Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

No, internal pump has nothing to do with need for a bulkhead. My pumps are internal.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Swirl pots? Tim? Lurch? Anyone? Opinions?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

JVL should pipe in here. I think he lifted the whole thing out of a SlAAB or Ovlov or sormething. Graham made mine, but I had Chad change it all around. It's bolted right to the bottom of the fill plate in the cell. It's really slick and cool and trick and neat and stuff. An aluminum tank in the cell with 2 Walbro pumps screwed to the bottom with a custom bracket. Fed with 2 ATL transfer pumps, one in each rear corner of the cell. It's fun loading everything in there (not).

E

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Lurch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JVL should pipe in here. I think he lifted the
> whole thing out of a SlAAB or Ovlov or sormething.
> Graham made mine.

Saab 900 from 79-80 something, I have like 3-4 on the shelf.
Comes with nice feed pump, and about a quart and a half and is set up to have the hi pressure pump poked into it, but I like critical things accessable so I shove the cell pick up into the "can" and put the pumps in the spare tire well covered with the indestructible 040 sheet aluminum with a couple of stiffening ribs pop-riveted on.

Saab's one pup is enough for turbo cars so should be good for normal aspirated schtuff.
>
> E
>
> Lurch
> Eric Burmeister
> Greatlakesknowitallatlarge
> Dee-troit
> Still work at Ford...for now...check back
> tomorrow.
> Not anymore. Fired.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2008 04:52PM by john vanlandingham.

Eric, what is the little blue guy plumbed into your fuel system? its living right next to the cell on the drivers side (i think...). I saw it in your gallery from your rally site. Is it a filter?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Yeah, filter.

They wanted that covered too, so It now resides under a piece of aluminum tubing with a CV boot on either end.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Lurch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, filter.
>
> They wanted that covered too, so It now resides
> under a piece of aluminum tubing with a CV boot on
> either end.

Is that fireproof CV boots.
Huge spate of cars being burned down and I read it was traced to careless use of onferior aftermarket CV boots in fuel systems.

I always used genuine Saab CV boots between the 45 Webers and the Saab Air filters and I never burned down my car!
>
> Lurch
> Eric Burmeister
> The west coast...of Michigan

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.