New Build up for suggestions and some head ups Or even Khuddo's

Paul Morrison Here...
I have a build in mind and would maybe like some helpful suggestion and some pointer and pointed in directions of where my knowledge of certain parts maybe limited

The build...

I have a 2nd Gen Escort GT (1991-1996) With a Mazda 1.8L DOHC from the Miata, protege, kia sephia, 323 GTX.
What i'm loooking to build out of this car?
323 GTX AWD Transmission (Custom built gearbox to handle the power) with LSD
RX-7 Rearend and gas tank
Later model 99-00 Miata Motor, And complete Harness Taking the head to the machine shop
High Profile Camshafts
Megasquirt Standalone ECU
RC 1000cc Injectors
Flyinmiata 2.0L Stroker kit with oversized Pistons
Stage 4 Clutch Kit
Already Built My 3in turbo back exhaust
Garrett Turbo set-up (Still unclear is to which one)

Any type of links or suggestions or even general run ins would be greatly appreciated. I used to race this car on uphill/downhill gravel roads now i want a pretty bad ass AWD escort that no one here has. The car handled perfectly suprisingly enough. Suspension isn't my forte so i would like some helpful suggestions for this as well...

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Quote
Pashka0788
I have a 2nd Gen Escort GT (1991-1996) With a Mazda 1.8L DOHC from the Miata, protege, kia sephia, 323 GTX.

I'm sorry. I had to drive one of those for like a year after some dumbfuck 17 year old in his brand new Contour turned into me totaling the Geo Metro. Now that was a fun car.

Quote
Pashka0788
323 GTX AWD Transmission (Custom built gearbox to handle the power) with LSD

Kaboom. That's the sound of either the gearbox blowing up or the bank vault getting emptied. Search for Jay with the AWD Mazda...

Quote
Pashka0788
RX-7 Rearend and gas tank
Later model 99-00 Miata Motor, And complete Harness Taking the head to the machine shop
High Profile Camshafts
Megasquirt Standalone ECU
RC 1000cc Injectors
Flyinmiata 2.0L Stroker kit with oversized Pistons
Stage 4 Clutch Kit
Already Built My 3in turbo back exhaust
Garrett Turbo set-up (Still unclear is to which one)

Sounds like you've done a perfect garage build. Ya know that putting an RX7 gas tank into a Fescort is not legal though right?

Quote
Pashka0788
Any type of links or suggestions or even general run ins would be greatly appreciated. I used to race this car on uphill/downhill gravel roads now i want a pretty bad ass AWD escort that no one here has. The car handled perfectly suprisingly enough. Suspension isn't my forte so i would like some helpful suggestions for this as well...

Suggestion one: Get over it. Stupidest idea I've heard since the friend talking about wanting to find a 2012 car to build an Open Light rally car with. At least you are young, the stupid OL idea was a rallyist that's been around for 10 years now. The words badass and Escort pretty much never go together unless they are also combined with the word Cosworth. Otherwise the only good thing about an Escort is decent enough fuel economy and they cost NOTHING to buy if you can find one that hasn't met the crusher yet.
The car handled perfectly? Surprisingly enough? To whom? Surprisingly all cars handle perfectly depending on your baseline and standards. My first two cars handled better than the 91 Escort coupe so I thought it handled like shit. I actually got my 1981 Subaru wagon running again so that I wouldn't have to drive the Escort anymore that was how much I disliked that car. The Geo was like a mini gokart and it kicked ass in the snow and was super light and got 45 MPG. Though it sucked relative to a GC Impreza or an E36 BMW.
Suggestion two: Take all the money you have saved towards this project and invest in Apple.

---

Grant Hughes

Where can i find this jay? And good luck finding a cosworth anywhere near here. Transmission won't be an issue. Escort gt if you think is crap then thats a matter of opinion i'm not gonna sit here and tell you your wrong. And this is a garage build your right, these motors are A. Reliable B. Cost Effecient C. Easy to build and D. Forged internals FACTORY.
Your right escorts aren't the greatest but i'm building one so get over it. My project. not yours. thanks for your opinion.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Quote
NoCoast
The words badass and Escort pretty much never go together unless they are also combined with the word Cosworth. Otherwise the only good thing about an Escort is decent enough fuel economy and they cost NOTHING to buy if you can find one that hasn't met the crusher yet.

Ouch...
http://rallyracingnews.com/cgi-bin/aglimpse/36/usr/local/etc/httpd/htdocs/racenews?query=escort+gt&lines=1&maxfiles=50
The good news is they ran well under production, just a bit more power than the GTi 8v. I know fuel economy and mine gets 14-16 MPG. And yes there are not a lot of the GTs available however you can find donor lx's even in these parts ( a welfare state). This whole thread reminds me of the guy looking to do the AWD focus swap with a massive Turbo all the while making a rally legal (not rally) car... yawn.

Lol yea theyre not the prettiest things nor most powerful either, but the interchangeabilities of them is amazing and mine has yet to let me down but like i said its a matter of opinion, I don't need a donor car i already have it... I'm not doing a massive turbo, not exactly necessary for my car i just need one that will work best for my set up, i still have some number crunching to do on the flow bench to get the perfect turbo. It mmight just be easier to get a ford laser tx3 turbo from australia... They come AWD turbo, they are in fact the escort here in the states just with different standards, not to mention illegal in the US.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS482US482&biw=1093&bih=513&tbm=isch&tbnid=oN7rQc3uPje5RM:&imgrefurl=http://fordlaser.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D83975%26start%3D60&docid=mP2gH4x-MM2FUM&imgurl=https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/464726_400309373321111_284793208206062_88522256_1407634354_o.jpg&w=2048&h=1366&ei=dq9XUIzcK8SliQLnxoGABQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=778&vpy=133&dur=708&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=182&ty=137&sig=100936863810710047958&page=8&tbnh=149&tbnw=210&start=82&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:82,i:386

So pretty much i'm just gonna have to build mine from the ground up and i figured why not a later model more updated motor along the way lol.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

If suspension isn't your forte, you should reconsider the idea of trying to make an AWD car out of one that isn't. Further, you should seriously seriously reconsider the choice of transaxle. 323GTX bits to start with are pretty rare nowadays, convincing someone to run off another aftermarket gearset for one is going to be expensive as hell, and I'm honestly skeptical of how well it would hold up even then. Also, the RX-7 final drives aren't really available in 4.11:1 that the 323-GTX uses, so that's going to be problematic.

I mean, go ahead if you want, but I would really suggest an honest and sober assessment of why you're trying to do this.

Quote
Pashka0788
Paul Morrison Here...
I have a build in mind and would maybe like some helpful suggestion and some pointer and pointed in directions of where my knowledge of certain parts maybe limited

The build...

I have a 2nd Gen Escort GT (1991-1996) With a Mazda 1.8L DOHC from the Miata, protege, kia sephia, 323 GTX.
What i'm loooking to build out of this car?

323 GTX AWD Transmission (Custom built gearbox to handle the power) with LSD

Good god. Why why why?

Quote

RX-7 Rearend and gas tank

OK sure.

Quote

Later model 99-00 Miata Motor, And complete Harness Taking the head to the machine shop

What's the difference tween whatcher got in it and a Miata B
series?

Quote

High Profile Camshafts

Not familiar with the term, but only been building motors for 40 years so I'm still learning.

But I have built some good ones---good enough to win National Gr2 title back when the class wasn't a stepping stone--and lots of people had good spec cars.

Give ya a hint: when you are building a turbo rally motor big BROAD spread of torque is the big goal for power enough to pull at 2000 thru whatever the miserable restrictor you are saddled with will allow. You will be forced to go Open with this so that's a 34mm restrictor so zero point in hotter cams which inevitably mover the peak torque and peak HP up the rpm range...
I'd say the hardest thing will be getting an optimised "restrictor' profile but from converstaions with people connected to some Euro teams such as Skoda and some Misterbitchi Evo things, peak torque peak mind you is around 3000 and peak Hp at maybe 3400....
One said "the big thing is to remember we must convert the kinetic energy in the exhaust gas into mechanical energy and spool the turbo early."

Now all the turbo motors I've built are unrestricted except Dave Hintzie's Subaru---with he won a bunch of events with and NW Region crown... And I did just the bottom end..

But camshaft is the key. AND I was warned very ominously "We bring on boost so early and so hard that accurate, precise control of max boost is critical and its easy to blow things right up!"

To that end Ford used "air injectors' (really just ordinary fuel injectors in a line between manifold and the waste gate actuator canister and the ECU cycled the injector to precisely bleed air to the canister) on a little mount like this:

Mounted on this:

Quote

Megasquirt Standalone ECU

Rotsa ruck.

Quote

RC 1000cc Injectors

Oh good, only about twice the size restricted 2,0 Subies use..
Why not 1200cc?
Or Dual 880cc per cylinders?

Ever hear of bore wash down?

Quote

Flyinmiata 2.0L Stroker kit with oversized Pistons

They don't list the price but they say its a Moldex crank so its good, but gawddamn 20 years ago a Moldex crank was over $2500 for a custom.

And why don't they show the price? It's a nice looking kit but it has to be thousands of dollars more than that old $2500 with the crank, rods and pistons.

You really think you need all that?
Aren't there B series that are 2.0 already?

Here's another thing. we call a 1,8 a 1,8 cause in one cycle 1,8 liters of air are going in. In a n.a. motor.
But in a turbo motor it twirls around once and if we give it 1 bar boost 3.6 liters goes in. Another bar and it's 5,4 liters air going thru...

looking at it that way, you could shove 0.12 bar more boost over xxxx bar into a 1.8 compared to a 2,0 at xxxx bar boost and be in the same place more or less. and have thousands in the pocket left over for all the other spendy bits a full car needs.

Mazda themselves did OK with the 1,8 (cause the restrictor didn't hurt a smaller motor as bad as it strngled a 2,0)...

Quote

Stage 4 Clutch Kit

Steel flywheel?
What pressure plate? You know almost all the stuff out there are stock pressure plates with pretty paint on them, dotcha?

Quote

Already Built My 3in turbo back exhaust

Sounds good

Quote

Garrett Turbo set-up (Still unclear is to which one)

you have dimesnions of the turbine and compressor wheels?
This is where many go badly wrong and then chase lag forever.

Quote

Any type of links or suggestions or even general run ins would be greatly appreciated. I used to race this car on uphill/downhill gravel roads now i want a pretty bad ass AWD escort that no one here has. The car handled perfectly suprisingly enough. Suspension isn't my forte so i would like some helpful suggestions for this as well...

There's probably somebody here who might know something about suspension, maybe somebody will suggest something.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2012 06:24PM by john vanlandingham.

Quote
mekilljoydammit
If suspension isn't your forte, you should reconsider the idea of trying to make an AWD car out of one that isn't. Further, you should seriously seriously reconsider the choice of transaxle. 323GTX bits to start with are pretty rare nowadays, convincing someone to run off another aftermarket gearset for one is going to be expensive as hell, and I'm honestly skeptical of how well it would hold up even then. Also, the RX-7 final drives aren't really available in 4.11:1 that the 323-GTX uses, so that's going to be problematic.

I mean, go ahead if you want, but I would really suggest an honest and sober assessment of why you're trying to do this.

Thank you for the rx7 rear end suggestion, that would''ve been one hell of a headache to figure out, i hear the miata uses the same numbers on the inside but a different casting number for the rear end.. do you know if this is accurate? And its not that i cant fabricate a suspension, more of which way to go with it? Which brands are more proven, everyone is entitled to their opinion on them however I'd like to have people with experince on that field... Which shocks and springs and what not, is polyurethane a good idea? those kind of suggestions lol.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Quote
Pashka0788
And good luck finding a cosworth anywhere near here. .

It's your day to good luck!
Suggested routes

211 mi, 3 hours 42 mins
In current traffic: 3 hours 42 min
Salem, OR

1. Head east on Center St NE toward Church St NE


0.4 mi
2. Turn left onto Capitol St NE


1.1 mi
3. Continue onto Fairgrounds Rd NE


0.3 mi
4. Continue onto Portland Rd NE


2.0 mi
5. Slight right to merge onto I-5 N toward Portland
Entering Washington



204 mi
6. Take exit 154 to merge onto I-405 S/WA-518 W toward Burien


0.5 mi
7. Continue onto WA-518 W


0.9 mi
8. Take the exit toward Sea-Tac Airport


0.8 mi
9. Merge onto Airport Expressway


0.9 mi
10. Slight right onto Departures Dr
Destination will be on the right



0.4 mi

Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
17801 International Boulevard
Seattle, WA 98


How many do you want?
Special this week only!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The earliest Miatas used a 160mm ring gear unit, same as the 323GTX, but not with the same ratios as the GTX. Later ones, and the NA RX-7s used a 180mm ring gear... which is shared with a bunch of stuff, and has a whole mess of ratios, but not *quite* the correct ones. And having the wrong ratios between front and rear, along with a viscous center diff, leads to a dead center diff if you do such things like drive in a straight line.

Seriously though, reconsider before you dump assloads of cash at this thing. You're going to be at a couple grand just for the gearset. There's far better engines and platforms, that you could build for cheaper. I know the urge to be different is strong, but seriously, consider what you would have when you're done.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Pashka0788
Paul Morrison Here...
I have a build in mind and would maybe like some helpful suggestion and some pointer and pointed in directions of where my knowledge of certain parts maybe limited

The build...

I have a 2nd Gen Escort GT (1991-1996) With a Mazda 1.8L DOHC from the Miata, protege, kia sephia, 323 GTX.
What i'm loooking to build out of this car?

323 GTX AWD Transmission (Custom built gearbox to handle the power) with LSD

Good god. Why why why?

Quote

RX-7 Rearend and gas tank

OK sure.

Quote

Later model 99-00 Miata Motor, And complete Harness Taking the head to the machine shop

What's the difference tween whatcher got in it and a Miata B
series?

Quote

High Profile Camshafts

Not familiar with the term, but only been building motors for 40 years so I'm still learning.

But I have built some good ones---good enough to win National Gr2 title back when the class wasn't a stepping stone--and lots of people had good spec cars.

Give ya a hint: when you are building a turbo rally motor big BROAD spread of torque is the big goal for power enough to pull at 2000 thru whatever the miserable restrictor you are saddled with will allow. You will be forced to go Open with this so that's a 34mm restrictor so zero point in hotter cams which inevitably mover the peak torque and peak HP up the rpm range...
I'd say the hardest thing will be getting an optimised "restrictor' profile but from converstaions with people connected to some Euro teams such as Skoda and some Misterbitchi Evo things, peak torque peak mind you is around 3000 and peak Hp at maybe 3400....
One said "the big thing is to remember we must convert the kinetic energy in the exhaust gas into mechanical energy and spool the turbo early."

Now all the turbo motors I've built are unrestricted except Dave Hintzie's Subaru---with he won a bunch of events with and NW Region crown... And I did just the bottom end..

But camshaft is the key. AND I was warned very ominously "We bring on boost so early and so hard that accurate, precise control of max boost is critical and its easy to blow things right up!"

To that end Ford used "air injectors' (really just ordinary fuel injectors in a line between manifold and the waste gate actuator canister and the ECU cycled the injector to precisely bleed air to the canister) on a little mount like this:

Mounted on this:

Quote

Megasquirt Standalone ECU

Rotsa ruck.

Quote

RC 1000cc Injectors

Oh good, only about twice the size restricted 2,0 Subies use..
Why not 1200cc?
Or Dual 880cc per cylinders?

Ever hear of bore wash down?

Quote

Flyinmiata 2.0L Stroker kit with oversized Pistons

They don't list the price but they say its a Moldex crank so its good, but gawddamn 20 years ago a Moldex crank was over $2500 for a custom.

And why don't they show the price? It's a nice looking kit but it has to be thousands of dollars more than that old $2500 with the crank, rods and pistons.

You really think you need all that?
Aren't there B series that are 2.0 already?

Here's another thing. we call a 1,8 a 1,8 cause in one cycle 1,8 liters of air are going in. In a n.a. motor.
But in a turbo motor it twirls around once and if we give it 1 bar boost 3.6 liters goes in. Another bar and it's 5,4 liters air going thru...

looking at it that way, you could shove 0.12 bar more boost over xxxx bar into a 1.8 compared to a 2,0 at xxxx bar boost and be in the same place more or less. and have thousands in the pocket left over for all the other spendy bits a full car needs.

Mazda themselves did OK with the 1,8 (cause the restrictor didn't hurt a smaller motor as bad as it strngled a 2,0)...

Quote

Stage 4 Clutch Kit

Steel flywheel?
What pressure plate? You know almost all the stuff out there are stock pressure plates with pretty paint on them, dotcha?

Quote

Already Built My 3in turbo back exhaust

Sounds good

Quote

Garrett Turbo set-up (Still unclear is to which one)

you have dimesnions of the turbine and compressor wheels?
This is where many go badly wrong and then chase lag forever.

Quote

Any type of links or suggestions or even general run ins would be greatly appreciated. I used to race this car on uphill/downhill gravel roads now i want a pretty bad ass AWD escort that no one here has. The car handled perfectly suprisingly enough. Suspension isn't my forte so i would like some helpful suggestions for this as well...

There's probably somebody here who might know something about suspension, maybe somebody will suggest something.

K the major diffrences in the MAZDA early model and later model BP's is A. THEY ARE A 1.8L Engine B. Headflow, the heads were revised due to the restrictions of the older style the ange sitting at 55* rather than 20* head not to mention the intakes were totally different considering they deleted the VICS (Variable Inertia Charge System) and put a More effecient VTCS (Variable Tumble Control System) C. A change in the oiling system. D. Coil Over Plugs, The tuneability for timing although electronic i am quite a bit more familiar with on the snap-on modis scanners systems E. They're Designed factory turbo the volumemtetric curve on the ecu for n/a and turbo on the bp26 ecu are the same but happy meduim to run either N/A or run the factory BPT setup, do you ever read up on a engine before going on blast and talking shit?
F. Im glad i know my alphabets lol G. Look harder for the price on that crank, your either blind or stupid... maybe both. H. If you want numbers and specs on the parts i'm putting in my car, you ask for them, i put all that shit up there for a general idea, if you ask me to be more specific, i can PM you. No where up there does it say "I'm gonna boost the fuck out of this motor" im still undecided till i crunch all the numbers correctly for the proper set up. I was giving a general idea. If you'd like to help me crunch some of these numbers i'm up for it.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Ok, I've got to chime in here as an ex owner of both a GTX rally car and a FlyinMiata equipped ubercharged miata on two points:

1) "cost efficient" and custom ground 2.0L crank from a small specialty shop in the same sentence? Surely you jest? Don't get me wrong, FM has some great products and I've always thought highly of the stuff they put together, but cheap is never something that comes to mind.

2) "reliable" and GTX gearbox also in the same sentence? ...and to top this off you're talking about spending thousands upon thousands to improve upon an engine package that's already been proven multiple times over to be sufficient for turning the gearbox into scrap?

All that said...if you are interested in a GTX dog-box that held up to a 1.8L and Garrett 2560R turbo for several races...LMK, the guy who bought my car didn't want to pony up for it. It will need a few new dog-rings cut (~$500 when I had them done about 6 years ago) and it may need something else too as forward progress stopped after about a half mile of running with a shredded flat tire.

Dave

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Pashka0788
And good luck finding a cosworth anywhere near here. .

It's your day to good luck!
Suggested routes

211 mi, 3 hours 42 mins
In current traffic: 3 hours 42 min
Salem, OR

1. Head east on Center St NE toward Church St NE


0.4 mi
2. Turn left onto Capitol St NE


1.1 mi
3. Continue onto Fairgrounds Rd NE


0.3 mi
4. Continue onto Portland Rd NE


2.0 mi
5. Slight right to merge onto I-5 N toward Portland
Entering Washington



204 mi
6. Take exit 154 to merge onto I-405 S/WA-518 W toward Burien


0.5 mi
7. Continue onto WA-518 W


0.9 mi
8. Take the exit toward Sea-Tac Airport


0.8 mi
9. Merge onto Airport Expressway


0.9 mi
10. Slight right onto Departures Dr
Destination will be on the right



0.4 mi

Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
17801 International Boulevard
Seattle, WA 98


How many do you want?
Special this week only!

Do you sell them? Is there a site i been looking for one i'd much rather have a cosworth. And awd EGT is a project im willing to build cause these arent available to me.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

So hey, minor differences in head flow that would be obliterated by any sort of porting, an oil pump change you could retrofit, and a bunch of shit that goes away if you ditch the stock ECU. I'm sure that was worth talking down to one of the few people who would likely actually be a useful resource for you.

If you want AWD, why not save yourself some transmission tunnel fab time and completely redesigning the rear end of your car and buy this and be out on the stages much much sooner:

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,71033

Dave