New Build up for suggestions and some head ups Or even Khuddo's

I'm sure I couldn't of said more clearly I will be building the car for rally. I'm gonna try to get more information for you all try to be a little patient please. Give me sometime to draw up a few thing and give some more figures to give a more direct facts of the initial build, don't worry about the engine or the fuel management cause honestly if it don't turn out to be what I want I can just swap it into somethin else. The car itself to build into an AWD realistically only cost $2000, and that's with using a factory BP-T, it only might be 210hp. 10-15k would be for the motor and to strengthen the gearbox. I'll pull all the numbers for you guys then put it up.

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Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

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Pashka0788
I'm sure I couldn't of said more clearly I will be building the car for rally. I'm gonna try to get more information for you all try to be a little patient please. Give me sometime to draw up a few thing and give some more figures to give a more direct facts of the initial build, don't worry about the engine or the fuel management cause honestly if it don't turn out to be what I want I can just swap it into somethin else. The car itself to build into an AWD realistically only cost $2000, and that's with using a factory BP-T, it only might be 210hp. 10-15k would be for the motor and to strengthen the gearbox. I'll pull all the numbers for you guys then put it up.

Damn, those are some sweet prices. I'm coming to you to build my next rally car...

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Less talk. More rally.

Quote
Pashka0788
I'm sure I couldn't of said more clearly I will be building the car for rally. I'm gonna try to get more information for you all try to be a little patient please. Give me sometime to draw up a few thing and give some more figures to give a more direct facts of the initial build, don't worry about the engine or the fuel management cause honestly if it don't turn out to be what I want I can just swap it into somethin else. The car itself to build into an AWD realistically only cost $2000, and that's with using a factory BP-T, it only might be 210hp. 10-15k would be for the motor and to strengthen the gearbox. I'll pull all the numbers for you guys then put it up.

You'd be thousands and thousands ahead to just buy my Cossie 4x4.

And have a much better proven car with much stronger parts.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 09:20PM by john vanlandingham.

He still hasn't said what sanctioning body of "rally" he will be building this car to "compete" in. To build a car that you think is cool and different that nobody else has and then trying to fit it into a class is backwards. Get to know the rules of the class you will be entering, then build your car to fit into a class. The rules tell you what equipment you can or cannot have, or what you can or cannot modify.
Here is your head ups: Know the rules. Follow the rules. Or you will be relegated to the Exhibition class.

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"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

I think he more or less just wants to build the car, let him. If here were truly gung ho about rallying he most likely would have not started this thread. sure it could be cool when/if its done. Too bad the advice given has not been well received by the OP.

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Gerrex
He still hasn't said what sanctioning body of "rally" he will be building this car to "compete" in. To build a car that you think is cool and different that nobody else has and then trying to fit it into a class is backwards. Get to know the rules of the class you will be entering, then build your car to fit into a class. The rules tell you what equipment you can or cannot have, or what you can or cannot modify.
Here is your head ups: Know the rules. Follow the rules. Or you will be relegated to the Exhibition class.

In shooting-the-shit mode, given the sort of things I was mulling over (Evo transaxle, t-case, diffs, brakes, good struts, fully built engine) I wonder if a 323GTX could be competitive at high levels of money dumped into it.

In RA, there's a weight break for the 323GTX with a 1600. With a fully built engine (ported, proper cams, forged high comp internals, race gas, wills ring'd head, etc) antilag, and a proper turbo, would the lack of 400cc really matter that much? It seems to me that hypothetically you could just turn the boost up even more at low RPM, and just be making torque a bit later into the power band than the 2L guys with the same restrictor size... and if you swap most of the out of production glass Mazda bits for Evo bits, it seems like that would take care of the durability issues. Granted, at great cost, a lot of work, etc... mostly I'm just wondering if the displacement would hurt you any.

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BJosephD
If here were truly gung ho about rallying he most likely would have not started this thread.

That is the reason I have not started a build thread with a "hey, what about this?" line. that is not even a build thread; it is an "I want others to validate my dreams" thread. I'm too busy reading other threads on this or that forum learning all i can in order to not waste everyone's time and mine. Then again, this post is wasting our time too...my bad.

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"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

Where do you get 1600cc's? It's the 1998cc motor, or the 1.8, granted there the same bell housing but urge only resemblance(s) they share are some electronics.

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Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

I was thinking about the 1600 because it gets a 300 pound weight break in RA and that, at a full out build level, combined with an Evo transaxle with an active center, good front and rear diffs, and non-Mazda-struts, might actually make it possibly competitive. And it doesn't really matter if absolutely every part of the 323GTX bolts up, because it's not actually a great idea for an Open class rally car anymore either. Fundamentally though, if you're absolutely deadset into handicapping yourself with a platform that is going to take truckloads of money to be competitive and reliable with stuff that would be in the same class, I'd shoot for every compensating advantage you could have. Which means the minimum weight break given for the 1600. Otherwise, you're starting with a very uncommon engine configuration (point to another 2L Mazda B-series engine built for a restrictor) and having to make up for the development done on a very common engine configuration (4G63 or Subaru EJ with a restrictor) that has been continuously refined for rally stuff for the last, what, 20 years?

It gets to the question of what you're trying to do here. Are you trying to be competitive with other cars in Open class, or are you content to live with having a massive performance gap between you and the front or even mid-pack guys? And that's ignoring the parts availability issues and parts durability issues... which I am 99% sure that you do not have a magic bullet to solve that everyone else trying to rally the platform never came across.

Alternate thought that's going to be more affordable and might be competitive... have you ever thought about Open Light? It's a much "softer" class as far as building to the limits of the rulebook as it's intended for people getting into things... if as you're saying every part of the 323GTX bolts into the Escort shell (I doubt it but whatever) then a lot of the weaknesses of the Mazda driveline stuff would be reduced if you're not running turbo-style torque through it. A little naturally aspirated tuning to the BP and you might be within striking distance of the Imprezas in terms of power and maybe similar in weight.

I was waiting for someone to mention open light,,,
That should be the class choise for this build ,less stress on the trans and everything else...
Work on making it light and adaptible to the next shell and no worrys on coef points to rally.

I am going for open light, maybe should've mentioned this my bad gentleman.
A 91-96.5 Ford escort gt comes factory fwd 2335lbs, 1.8L DOHC Mazda engine, BG Chassis Platform, 92 Inch wheelbase, 8.45 inches of travel on front suspension, 8.75 inches of travel on the rear. The engine believe it or not is a very simple configuration, the 4G63 I've had my fair share of between the Evo's and Eclipses. granted the gearbox's are far stronger from the factory but the amount I'd spend on the Internals to make them more reliable (Crankwalk Issues and balancing not to mention the spacers that needed to be bought... If i can find a wrecked first generation 4G63 that'd be a better engine to start with) Not saying they're weak or anything they put out some really good numbers they're just not my style. Mazda don't have a 2.0L B Motor, and my bad about the CC's its 1839cc's i went and read the tag this moring, the all forged stoker kit will make it a 2.0L BP 1995cc to keep under the 2000cc class and can handle outputs of over 800WHP Proven on the track. But the gearbox a lil (And by lil i mean extremely too weak) to handle even close to that, 350 at most factory for awhile if your being somewhat easy on them. Not to mention I pretty much smoked the 300awhp eclispe with my rwd escort and its 339rwhp off of factory just used junkyard parts for the miata trans rear end and driveline. For aftermarket i ran a piggy back with a godspeed small ballbearing T3 turbo @ 14.5psi plus an aftermarket stage 3 clutch from ACT, and built the exhaust. If i wanted to go into the 2.0L i'd go with a mazda FE DOHC with the Ford probe 2.2L forged crank and rods with 0.040'' over pistons for a strong 2.3L stroker that i can turbo and get close to 500hp off of pump gas and the 91 mazda 626I awd transmission, which in turn is just as strong as the mitsubishi transmission. Good luck finding one of those and thats ALOT of fabrication work just to make it fit. I'll get some more dimensions up for suspension and interchangeabilities though. I know the mazda BP motors are very strong and reliable and easily can handle forced induction since they're built for it and proven extremely Reliable on factory internal of boost pressure 21psi as a daily driver. Iwill be posting up the parts im looking into and with specs here sometime this weekend. Just been busy sorry y'all.

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Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Whoops, contradicted myself the rwd was factory internal... should clarify that..

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Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Might want to leave the turbo at home (per your original post) if you're going for Open Light.

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EricW
Might want to leave the turbo at home (per your original post) if you're going for Open Light.

True, main part of the engine build is the foundation. the parts are proven to take a beating, part of having a standalone pnp ecu is that i can tune for N/A. but if i wanted to go big or go home its just a matter of a quick bolt up of the turbo and try but most likely fail keeping up with the big boys. This is for fun, a hobby pretty much. More to come soon i almost have the list done. Post it up tomorrow.

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Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Pssst......

Open light is for non turbo only.