Civic hatchie build

well, here goes...
My name is Gerrett. I caught the rally bug when I moved to the northern Colorado area in 2008. Steamboat Springs to be exact. I attended Rally Colorado the last two years it was held here.
I've been planning a build in my head and on paper ever since. I also am aware of the enormity of this task. I have no illusions about how long it can take. I'll post updates as they occur so please be patient. Thanks. I also will be including my co-driver(wife) and crew(toddler son) on the construction. I've been drooling over all the builds I've seen here for long enough. It is time to slurp it up and get moving with a build of my own.

Here it is, in as nearly the same condition as when I traded my old Integra for it. Slammed, I know but that will change.


Here is a shot of the LS B18B1 and tranny already swapped. A welded diff is in it's future.


I've stripped most of the interior and chipped out the sound reduction tar, thanks sub-zero Colorado weekend. I also did a crude mock-up of the cage with duct tape before ordering some DOM tubing. The main hoop is a Competition Engeneering pre made piece I ordered from JEGS a while back. The 1.75'' tubes are layed out in silver and the red is the 1.5'' tubes. exception: the harness bar is in grey for no reason at all. I used the pdf of the min cage requirements from the RA website.


A shot of the cockpit.


Side hoop and door bars etc. the sill bar is there too. I know there are no gussets, it's tape.


I only have one question for the ones who have done this before. in this picture the main hoop is in the position that i originally planned for but I was thinking of moving it to where the hole saw is sitting. any suggestions? the giant hole is for lowering the cage in order to weld the top of the roof bars and things.


I also have done a sick wire tuck job on the tailgate.


That is all for now. Tubing should be delivered by the end of the week. Thanks guys. Cheers.

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"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2012 08:01PM by Gerrex.

listen before you go all crazy on the back, give some serious thought to raising the or grafting in or on the towers for the shocks. Those buggers are short travel and now is the easiest time to mod the body once and be done with it.... around 200mm travel would be nice...

And ever thought about grafting in plain struts on the front?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Build boxes for the cage feet and have the main hoop sit on top of the boxes. Of course, since you've already cut holes, you'l then be able to get them really really low.

Main hoop is allowed to tilt back up to 10 degrees. 10 degrees at 20" high is 3.5" further back = potentially more room for seat to recline without getting head into main hoop X.

Door bars: Need to be one 1.75X0.095 continuous door bar plus and additional bar. I would suggest doing a sill bar aka 1.75X0.095 as low and straight as possible. Then do a single diagonal door bar. So starting high and going down to the bottom of the a-pillar. This will reduce gusset being required where the door bar and a-pillar reinforcement are.
There is a good discussion about door bars on this forum that I started a few months ago. A short search should find it easily.

A-pillar reinforcement can have up to 20 degree bend but must remain straight in side view. This can be the difference between the bar being 2" from steering wheel to being 5" from steering wheel. And can make getting in and out of car easier.
It can also be a max of 100mm from the windshield longitudinal member. That can make getting in and out of car easier, though with a Civic you are probably okay.

Denver is not too far from Hayden. Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions!!! PM on here, email, text, whatever works!

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Grant Hughes

Thanks guys for your support, I was spurred forward by that troll comrade pashka, and the sale of my 240sx. I felt that you guys deserved something real.
John- I have thought of increasing the travel but only on the wish list. you are right, it would be easier to do it sooner rather than later. That thought gives me something to do in my down time at work.
I have thought also, about doing a thing i may have seen in a thread here or something; this japaneese shop took pieces of replacement sheet metal and drilled holes in it and welded it over the top of the existing material to strengthen the area. I thought of doing this around the suspension points before attaching the cage. Measure twice, cut once. ya know.

Grant- Thanks for the pointers. I'll go look for the door bar thread instead of starting the discussion over again here.

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"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2012 07:59PM by Gerrex.

I thought someone was saying that suspension travel in the back of those is limited by an arm not be the shock tower.
Plenty of successful Civics of that era without long travel rear.
You probably wouldn't be that handicapped with Colorado hill climbs or Rally Idaho.
I personally would not dive that deep on a first rally car.

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Grant Hughes

I'm not really looking to go that big on this build. Although I will take the lessons and preferences I learn on this build and apply them to the next one. For me, the journey is just as important as the destination. The overall goal of this build is to get me on stage so I can start driving. Even with stock travel, I don't think I wil be driving beyond the limits of the vehicle for awhile. It is pretty much a learner for me; fabrication, set up, driving etc.

---

"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

Quote
Gerrex
I'm not really looking to go that big on this build. Although I will take the lessons and preferences I learn on this build and apply them to the next one. For me, the journey is just as important as the destination. The overall goal of this build is to get me on stage so I can start driving. Even with stock travel, I don't think I wil be driving beyond the limits of the vehicle for awhile. It is pretty much a learner for me; fabrication, set up, driving etc.

If you build it right, you may have this shell a lot longer than you think.
I still have the first car I built in 1985.

Something like these might take a couple of hours to make and an hour to install.



They may make the driving of the car multiple times funner-er.

A poxy 5" travel shock costs the same as a nice 8" travel one.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
They may make the driving of the car multiple times funner-er.

A poxy 5" travel shock costs the same as a nice 8" travel one.

Also makes the car multiple times less likely to ever see a stage. And also makes multiple times harder to figure out what to do if the car is not handling right.

I would rather have x fun on stages than have no fun multiple times because the car never makes it out of the garage.

John-
I will be giving the idea some serious thought. I respect you too much just to blow off your suggestion without seriously considering it. There is still plenty of time to make that decision too. What with all the other work that needs to be done and all. I still have to tear it the rest of the way down and prep it for seam welding. I'm gonna build one of those Wood Stylez car rotisseries(genius).

---

"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

seam welding is best done with beer.

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Quote
NoCoast
I thought someone was saying that suspension travel in the back of those is limited by an arm not be the shock tower.
Plenty of successful Civics of that era without long travel rear.
You probably wouldn't be that handicapped with Colorado hill climbs or Rally Idaho.
I personally would not dive that deep on a first rally car.

The rear travel is fine as is. You are limited in droop travel by the trailing arm and toe link setup that they have. Also you start to get into suspension component interferance issues with more droop as well.

Here's my car at full droop off a nice "kick"


Here's my car upside down to show it's true full droop.


Here's the design of the rear trailing arm.


The shock travel isn't as long as but it's an inboard shock (compared to a strut type) so you're at a less than 1:1 motion ratio. OEM shocks get a little over 6" of travel, at 0.74 motion ratio in the rear gives a wheel travel of just over 200mm.

Front's you don't want any more droop or you'll start getting into CV joint issues and even if you could droop it more, your knuckle will hit the springs on your shock and stop it from drooping any more in the first place.

I have not changed anything to increase droop on my car, and I am VERY close to hitting the front knuckle on full droop. The rears don't get much better with clearance in droop as my springs/spring perch has less than 1cm clearance to the trailing arm at full droop as well.

Long story short, I've had no issues with running good dampers on an OEM travel suspension in my EK civic. Keep it how it is, get on the stages quicker. The Irish have no problems bombing down roads in their EK/EG cars with no modifications to shock towers so why should we?

Quote
Gravity Fed
seam welding is best done with beer.

yeah, i'll be having my buddies over for a brewski or two. after they pick up a grinder/wire wheel.

Billy Elliot-
Dooood! I've read your G2 Civic build on SS like a gillion times! I like how you did your cage. I like how it makes a big X from the rear shocks through the main hoop, roof V, down the a pillar. Can you tell that your cage was the inspiration for my duct tape mock up?
I'm Irish too. Not fully but surely ginger enough.
I dont think I have the budget to go to a pedal box, extended hub wheel, hydro handbrake, relocated shift linkage like you did, right away that is. The way my main hoop fits, it looks like I'll be glad for the holes in the floor for welding comfort. Steel should be here by Monday. With extra feet ordered the whole thing weighs just 181.24 lbs. that is a lot less than I thought it would weigh. Going to pick up some materials for the rotisserie today after work.

---

"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 12:32PM by Gerrex.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Something like these might take a couple of hours to make and an hour to install.

HA HA HA! That right there is some funny shit. No doubt i am stoked to have large amounts of travel in the rear but just a bit more work than that. lets dial back that exauguration meter a little John. just like the stitch welding right, yeah see sig below

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Zap zap my ass...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 12:47PM by slidewayswrx.

I take the roof off the cars I cage. It takes 20 min to take the roof off.(assuming the glass is out) and about 45min to weld it back on. It makes building the cage 10 times easier and you dont have to deal with dropping the cage threw some holes. The hole trick works but pulling the roof makes the hole cage job much easier. My main hoop is where your hole saw is and ive seen many others built there. I also would build your rotisory first. This makes welding and fitting the cage easier. With the roof off and on the rotisory You dont have to be a contortionist to fit, hold and weld those hard spots. I agree with Billy on the susp build it and rally it! Good luck on the build!

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Taking off the roof just to weld the top of the cage sounds like an awful lot of unnecessary work to me. I have done this when reskinning the roof anyway to remove a sunroof but otherwise there's no need. If you mount the cage legs to the top of the sills there is usually no need to cut holes in the floor to drop the cage down. I rarely ever have to cut a hole, I just drop the cage off the sill down to the floor and can reach the top. Usually you have to drop one side down at a time but it works.