Civic hatchie build

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Doivi Clarkinen
Taking off the roof just to weld the top of the cage sounds like an awful lot of unnecessary work to me. I have done this when reskinning the roof anyway to remove a sunroof but otherwise there's no need. If you mount the cage legs to the top of the sills there is usually no need to cut holes in the floor to drop the cage down. I rarely ever have to cut a hole, I just drop the cage off the sill down to the floor and can reach the top. Usually you have to drop one side down at a time but it works.

Agreed.
We've done three this year and fourth is in progress this way.

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Grant Hughes

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Gerrex

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Gravity Fed
seam welding is best done with beer.

yeah, i'll be having my buddies over for a brewski or two. after they pick up a grinder/wire wheel.

Billy Elliot-
Dooood! I've read your G2 Civic build on SS like a gillion times! I like how you did your cage. I like how it makes a big X from the rear shocks through the main hoop, roof V, down the a pillar. Can you tell that your cage was the inspiration for my duct tape mock up?
I'm Irish too. Not fully but surely ginger enough.
I dont think I have the budget to go to a pedal box, extended hub wheel, hydro handbrake, relocated shift linkage like you did, right away that is. The way my main hoop fits, it looks like I'll be glad for the holes in the floor for welding comfort. Steel should be here by Monday. With extra feet ordered the whole thing weighs just 181.24 lbs. that is a lot less than I thought it would weigh. Going to pick up some materials for the rotisserie today after work.

You don't need the pedal box. I wanted to build a dual master setup and I got my pedals, brake masters and shift linkage all used for a good deal. Still was pretty expensive. You can still get good performance from a single master.

I would suggest going with a single master, pressure limiter valve before the handbrake master and a brake booster delete. I would do the hydraulic handbrake. Do it now while you run the brake lines inside the car. All you need is something like the one below:


Don't buy the chasebays one. It's just a piece of aluminum bolted to the firewall and comes with a wilwood master that might not be the right size for rally. You can make your own out of a steel plate. You can re-use the clevis from your old pedal but you will likely need to re-tap it to your new brake master (just get a Tilton master off summit, they're less than $100 and not shit) thread or you can just order a new one off Mcmaster.com.

The good news, chasebays has dimensions on their website! But you'll need to adjust the center hole and bolt holes for the master to make sure it fits the master you purchase.
http://www.chasebays.com/content/downloads/CB-U-BBE_dimensions.pdf

If you don't want to bother building one, there's a company that sells a chasebays knock off plate for $50.
http://downstarinc.com/Shop/index.php?_a=product&product_id=51

As far as brake master, chasebays recommends a 7/8" but I would ask Cosworth on the forums what he would suggest (he's the brake guy here on the forums). Or you can email Tilton directly, tell them that you're looking for a proper master cylinder size for rally. They'll let you know what info you need to get them.

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Doivi Clarkinen
Taking off the roof just to weld the top of the cage sounds like an awful lot of unnecessary work to me. I have done this when reskinning the roof anyway to remove a sunroof but otherwise there's no need. If you mount the cage legs to the top of the sills there is usually no need to cut holes in the floor to drop the cage down. I rarely ever have to cut a hole, I just drop the cage off the sill down to the floor and can reach the top. Usually you have to drop one side down at a time but it works.

I ended up just having holes cut in the roof and the metal was pulled back then welded back. Grind the welds down and stuck some vinyl over the top. Good as new!

If I had to do it all over again, I would have removed the roof. Just looks a lot cleaner when you're done. It doesn't take that long if you have a spot weld drill, but there are typically half a century of spot welds to hold those roofs on.

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Andrew_Frick

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john vanlandingham
They may make the driving of the car multiple times funner-er.

A poxy 5" travel shock costs the same as a nice 8" travel one.

Also makes the car multiple times less likely to ever see a stage. And also makes multiple times harder to figure out what to do if the car is not handling right.

I would rather have x fun on stages than have no fun multiple times because the car never makes it out of the garage.

Maybe for you.

But 10s of thousands of people the world over have been welding towers into hundreds of thousands of rally cars for 3-4 decades.
Somehow, thru magic maybe, they managed what you constanly assert in tooo much work and certain project death.

Maybe it is for you.

But maybe you don't have the right support group?
You don't seem to have a solid grasp of suspension, but there are some that SEEM to have aquired that and SEEM to be able to supply advice and parts that let people go pretty damn good---in all sorts of cars.
You did see the results from Black River Stages didn't you?

If you can't weld, or make rudimentary sheetmetal parts and don't know suspension at all, maybe you could leave that to those that do?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

To the OP. Run some good revalved dampers. You can make it REAL easy, find a way to order Tein's Gravel spring set, put it into some revalved Bilstein HD dampers and you're good to go. You don't need any of this extended shock tower shenanagins.

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john vanlandingham

You did see the results from Black River Stages didn't you?

And this has what to do with suspension? I beat Kevin on every stage but one of day 2 of STPR and I'm running some "inferior" Hot-Bits suspension with no shock tower modification.

You seem to not have read what I told him. The Civic suspension is not designed for more travel. It can't take it. If you go with a longer damper, all he is going to do is have a longer damper. He won't gain any suspension travel as you can rub the tires on the wheel wells in stock form for compression. It won't get you anymore droop due to the the front knuckle clearance and CV issues (already a weak point on the car) and the rear won't allow anymore droop without hitting the trailing arm on the spring/damper. He would need to do more modifications than just making taller towers and adding longer dampers.

This is George's civic. I don't have a picture of mine at the moment. But if you look to the right of his damper next to the coilover sleeve, that bit of vertical metal, that's the trailing arm. He's got maybe a spring's diameter worth of clearance to the shock body.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2012 01:18AM by BillyElliot.

Taking the roof off isnt necassary but if you have ever built a car with it off you will know what I mean. Grant I feel bad that you have built 4 cars with the roof in place. Cage building is so much easier with it off. Not just welding the tops but the total cage build goes smoother. You can damn near build the hole cage with out stepping in the car.

I repaired a roof that a cage builder cut holes in. I had more time welding grinding and mudding to still have it look like shit to ever recommend doing that.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

How can you get the bars tight up against the roof woth the skin removed? I have watched an expert cage builder do multiple cages without removing anything, no extra holes cut, and they fit as good as you can get them. Why recomend unnecessary work to a first time builder?

The op can do what he wants. I was just telling him what I have found to help make cage building easier and in my opionion faster. I also feel this is even better for a first time cage builder. If you are building cookie cutter cages then your more apt to leave the roof. But if your learning and having to fit say a half lateral it is much easier with the roof out of the way. You can see your nothes and bends better for fitment. Your not climbing in and out of the car 50 times. The list goes on and on. As for the roof bars being close you throw the roof on check pull it back off and move on.

I really dont see the big deal about pulling the roof anyway. Im not a big beer drinker but I would have to say no more then 2 beers to pull the roof. It may take more to convince you to start drilling but it will be done faster then you think. I gaurantee he will spend more time stairing at the bender trying to figure how to bend the half lateral then he or his buddy will pulling the roof.

Lets move on from the roof argument Please!

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Good point, besides, I decided to have a local shop bend my side hoops and main hoop(it doesn't conform to the rules, thanks Gene) I have the tools and skills for fitting the straight pieces just no mandrel bender. I have material for the wood rotisserie, I'm working on the tear-down.

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"America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

Hey! congrats on the build! I'm doing all the same things now so Its great to see someone going through everything around the same time, I'm a bit further ahead, hopefully I don't slow down and you catch up or I'll be disappointed in myself because it means I'm slacking hahaha

Are you bending your own cage? I did mine and it was alot of fun! I had some help from the genius inside my computer, Solidworks, but I can PM you the PDF of the below, it may be able to help you out with your half lateral bends. I have drawings for all the tubes and a GA with a cut list as well. But I found the it the most useful was the Main hoop, half laterals, and the transverse bar on the roof and the door bars. the other ones you can really do by just measuring. The Half laterals it helped the most because of the multi plane bend that was required.


What I did was measure the envelope of the interior selecting points of reference then created the cage within that frame. the first page shows the interior dimensions I took.... I have it set up that I can re-create a drawing with new dimensions in literally 5 minutes, so if you wanted, you could supply the dimensions for yours and I can send one that fits your car as its an older model. (I can send you pictures of the points I measured from)

It really helped in that I could just cut, measure and bend and not worry at all because everything fit snug.

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I'm always posting on Instagram...follow me! PeteNaz Instagram

My Build

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Gerrex
Good point, besides, I decided to have a local shop bend my side hoops and main hoop(it doesn't conform to the rules, thanks Gene) I have the tools and skills for fitting the straight pieces just no mandrel bender. I have material for the wood rotisserie, I'm working on the tear-down.

hahaha nvm my last post I just saw this as I hit post on it

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I'm always posting on Instagram...follow me! PeteNaz Instagram

My Build

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Andrew_Frick

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john vanlandingham
They may make the driving of the car multiple times funner-er.

A poxy 5" travel shock costs the same as a nice 8" travel one.

Also makes the car multiple times less likely to ever see a stage. And also makes multiple times harder to figure out what to do if the car is not handling right.

I would rather have x fun on stages than have no fun multiple times because the car never makes it out of the garage.

This.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Just make sure they get it tight!!!
There have been some train wrecks lately.

Here's an example of one really really really bad one. Literally nothing good about the entire cage.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o540/05Stibuild/IMG_1347.jpg
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o540/05Stibuild/IMG_1349.jpg

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
Just make sure they get it tight!!!
There have been some train wrecks lately.

Here's an example of one really really really bad one. Literally nothing good about the entire cage.
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o540/05Stibuild/IMG_1347.jpg
http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o540/05Stibuild/IMG_1349.jpg

Excuse my french, but jesus fucking christ that is a shitty ass cage!

That weld job didnt get log booked did it? I hope not...

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I'm always posting on Instagram...follow me! PeteNaz Instagram

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2012 10:17PM by PeteNaz.

Oh definitely not.
The owner and builder seem to argue more about who is a bigger meth head than anything.
I offered to help the guy redo the cage. Another friend who has a local shop promptly called me and advised me against it. They apparently had to throw him out of theirs. Not that being a douche means you get a shitty cage like that either.

Anyhow Gerrett. Some people to know. Tommy Kilpatrick down here in Denver built a 92 Civic a few years back. Ran it at Cog in 04 and maybe other years. I just remember 04 as I transferred my entry to him after my engine gave up at a hill climb the weekend before. Mitch Williams used to own Checkpoint Racing and won the USRC last year in his Open Class STI. He rolled a borrowed Honda Civic at Rally Colorado. He'll be in Steamboat from November-March working at BWDS. David Kern who has the hill climb Evo and the sweet BMW Compact rally car also works at BWDS during the winter, but he just comes up on weekends for it. Ryan MacLaughlin lives down here in Evergreen and bought the Mitch rolled civic, cut the cage out and put it in another Civic, built and Integra turbocharged and does hill climbs and such with it. I'm hoping to go to Steamboat a few times this winter to get some time in with Dave and crew at BWDS. Even if it's just riding along time.

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Grant Hughes