Civic hatchie build

it looks similar to Dan's integra in design....

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

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john vanlandingham

Maybe for you.

But 10s of thousands of people the world over have been welding towers into hundreds of thousands of rally cars for 3-4 decades.
Somehow, thru magic maybe, they managed what you constanly assert in tooo much work and certain project death.

Maybe it is for you.

But maybe you don't have the right support group?
You don't seem to have a solid grasp of suspension, but there are some that SEEM to have aquired that and SEEM to be able to supply advice and parts that let people go pretty damn good---in all sorts of cars.
You did see the results from Black River Stages didn't you?

If you can't weld, or make rudimentary sheetmetal parts and don't know suspension at all, maybe you could leave that to those that do?

hahahaha. John, where to start?

I will not argue that many people have successfully installed towers in rally cars over the years. I will also not argue that in many cases one can make a rally car that is more competitive by making suspension geometry changes. And I will give you credit for being able to make rally quality suspension components at an affordable price.

However, welding and sheet metal fabrication skills does not make one a suspension designer. I do understand suspensions, I do know how to weld, and I do know how make sheet metal parts. But my skills are irrelevant to this discussion, so are yours for that matter as I doubt the OP will be bringing his car to your shop to have the towers welded in.


The OP is building his first rally car. Here are my reasons why the OP is better off with stock tower location:
- Honda did more than zap zap in some towers on the design process
- Very few if any Honda rally cars make this change
- As Billy pointed out this change would be meaningless for the suspension geometry.
- This will add time and complexity to the build that is unnecessary for a first car. Which decreases the likely hood that this car will ever see a stage.
- This only adds cost of the build. Every dollar that goes into building the car is one less dollar that can be spent on going to events. So spending wisely is important.
- It will be harder to fix the shell when as a new driver he goes off and the shell is bent enough that he needs help from a professional body shop.
- Junk yards don't carry shocks that fit custom towers, so now he will need to buy 2 custom shocks per corner in case of a failure. Again adding to the cost.



I did see the results at Black River Stages, I was likely more closely involved with them than you were.

Here is what I saw:
- I saw all of the fast AWD cars with large budgets(and surprisingly stock tower locations) either break or crash out.
- I saw Kevin and Matt drive their butts off to a 1st overall win or a vastly more powerful car. I just asked and their shock towers are still in the stock location +/- any movement from getting beat on in rally.
- I saw no Hondas that had relocated shock towers.
- I saw a pair of guys that lived near BRS finish LAST in their first rally in a bone stock Evo. And when they got to the final MTC they looked like they had just won a WRC event.

What was your point? Were you trying to say that because Kevin's car was running JVL springs and dampers that was the reason they finished first overall?

Or were you trying to state that since I do not share your opinion on the direction of a first rally car, It must be because I am stupid and uninformed?

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Andrew_Frick

Blah blah blah blah
What was your point? Were you trying to say that because Kevin's car was running JVL springs and dampers that was the reason they finished first overall?

Or were you trying to state that since I do not share your opinion on the direction of a first rally car, It must be because I am stupid and uninformed?

Obviously the point was that which was stated: the OP might want to look at that option now.

And that figuring out simple mods and what that costs in thinking, dollars and time MIGHT now be smarter now than later.

And that somebody evidently can figure out---thru discussions with people--good suspension for several different TYPES of car..affordably.

rather than your doom and gloom and "10 times more likely...."

By that "logic" why do anything?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
By that "logic" why do anything?

Finally we're talking sense here!!!
Suspension, diff, intake, exhaust, and maybe, maybe a chip. Oh and naturally some good brake pads. Malsom won's day 2 Rally Colorado in 2006 with stock Impreza L brakes with Porterfield pads. That's drum brakes in the rear for you heathens.
Colin McLeery has more rallies than probably 99% of Americans in his XR4ti with Porterfield pads on stock brakes including rear drums.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
john vanlandingham
Obviously the point was that which was stated: the OP might want to look at that option now.

And that figuring out simple mods and what that costs in thinking, dollars and time MIGHT now be smarter now than later.

And that somebody evidently can figure out---thru discussions with people--good suspension for several different TYPES of car..affordably.

rather than your doom and gloom and "10 times more likely...."

By that "logic" why do anything?

lol, John. Reducing anything you don't like to "blah blah blah" nice touch.

I agree simple mods are good. Where I disagree is on the suggestion that properly relocating suspension pickup points on a chassis being simple.



Grant, those are great examples of the type of car that more people need to be rallying. Also, the Wright's focus is super simple and has what 45 rallies on it.

I'm with Andrew on this. K.I.S.S. I don't see Hondas with massive rear suspension failures. I do see Hondas kicking FWD ass when utilized.

Quit being so doctrinaire John! It does not become you.

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

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wvonkessler
I'm with Andrew on this. K.I.S.S. I don't see Hondas with massive rear suspension failures. I do see Hondas kicking FWD ass when utilized.

Quit being so doctrinaire John! It does not become you.

Suggesting a person might think about something is doctrinaire?

Oi gevalt!

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I'll tell you this... changing/modding things for the sake of "I might as well while I'm doing this" turned my $10k Honda into an $18k Honda. Just saying...

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BillyElliot
I'll tell you this... changing/modding things for the sake of "I might as well while I'm doing this" turned my $10k Honda into an $18k Honda. Just saying...

But there is a subtle difference between what you suggest "I might as well do this" and something possibly, if the shock mounting into the body is anything like the Acura of Paulinho, that adds $60 in parts and labor.

Just like the big dilemma that poor Scott in Colorado had with the 4 inserts that had mangled threads, there might be very simple things that somebody whose job it is to figure out these things can come up with, and guys who do other things and occasionally putter in the garage.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Keep it simple and get some rallies under your belt.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
BillyElliot
I'll tell you this... changing/modding things for the sake of "I might as well while I'm doing this" turned my $10k Honda into an $18k Honda. Just saying...

But there is a subtle difference between what you suggest "I might as well do this" and something possibly, if the shock mounting into the body is anything like the Acura of Paulinho, that adds $60 in parts and labor.

His suspension is like an Acura (Integra too be specific), but it is nothing like Paulinhos RSX was. The RSX is struts front and a different wishbone rear. This is double wishbone front and rear.

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Rallymech
Keep it simple and get some rallies under your belt.

Denk, mann. immer einfach
Wann ich jemals geraten, was nicht war einfach?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I am the poster child for first car failure.

I have been building the same car for 5+ years. It has been an interesting experience. It's legitimately almost done, lol. I even have license plates for it.

If I were to do EVERYTHING again, and I was intent on NOT buying a car... or buying a caged shell, at least, I would ONLY strip the interior out, put in some HD off the shelf dampers, leave/weld the diff (unless stock LSD, ie ae86 or something), and cage/seat/harness/rally stuff/etc it.

No motor work. I did that. Look where I am.... finishing motor wiring...
No wiring work... We just finally finished the body wiring awhile ago...
No BIG suspension work. This car is trash. It's dead. Your money is gone. You wont sell this car. If you dont have this attitude, you're not looking at this car right. This money will roll. Upgrade shocks, maybe off the shelf springs, but eh, no big body mods.
Nothing frivolous.

I have built the worst starter car out of the best starter car. Dont do that. Be careful who you take advice from. Somethings are worth a lot. Get some good brake pads. If there is a brake kit available, that bolts on, THAT would be a good choice. (you know, if it fits under gravel wheels/tires)

I want to rally. Not work on cars. I fucking HATE working on cars. I truly hate it. That's a BIG part of why my car has taken so long. I *hate* working on cars. But I love driving, and that's why I haven't given up. (and I'm stubborn as hell :/ )

Don't "idea" yourself into a pit. Do more research on ANY advice you get, from anyone. Are other cars that are doing well in your area doing that? Or not? Maybe they are.

My advice would be seek out those who are doing what you want to do (rallying a civic) and talk to them about their struggles, and what has worked out well for them. THEY are already racing. They have REAL experience with that. Could their experiences be enhanced by something else? Sure. But for now, a first car, to just get out on stage with? Don't worry about it.

Cage it and go.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I totally agree with dazed_driver, don't overdo your first car. Get on Stage and have fun. If you must build a super-bitchin car, let it be your second rally car.

Also, what happened to your name on your profile?

Oh, I'm protesting.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.