Anti- Sub belt and seat question

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john vanlandingham
Again Ferdy, that has nothing to do with anything we do in the woods as tragic as it is.

I would argue that what we do in the woods has a much greater potential for violent impacts.

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john vanlandingham
Your black or white argumentation is not reasoning.

Whereas your original statement is supposed to be considered as "reasoning"?

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john vanlandingham
I know I'm not going to slip out from under the harnesses, so i don't cut the seat, I cram the sub belt into the cushion and everything is groovy.

Yup. That'll be groovy alright.

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john vanlandingham
Poor thinking and poor reasoning is my subject.

Ok, how about your constant argument against a straw man "do or die" mentality and alarmism no one has shown?

Your request for annecdotes you feel are only valuable regardless of test data, physics and math. Even though you yourself said an incident where a hans was in use could not prove the value of the hans.

The argument that beause it's never happened means it not worth any amount of effort, no matter how slight, to protect against even though there is data to show it can happen.

You seem to be twisting everything around to make your already determined conclusions the correct one.

I do also notice the entirely unproductive ad hominum attacks againt John.

Tim.

Ya know, the problem here is precedent. John, you are wasting time typing. Go weld something or something.
There is a potential risk, some dickbag actuary could probably give us a number, that you will suffer death or serious injury due to submarining. Someone decides a cutoff value, if it exceeds that value, voila, it becomes required to attempt to prevent that risk. That is how the insurance and panty waste world works. Deal with it. Once something is implemented for "safety" it is nearly impossible to undo. Hans. Okay, adds enough safety, isn't super expensive to buy, I'm okay with it. Anti-sub belts, uhh... do they even make certified 4 points? They're not that expensive, they add some safety, I'm okay with it.
AFA hitting walls, etc. 100AW 2003, Dodge Neon rally car head on with a Buick at 60 MPH leads to flight for life trips. Just because it might not happen on stage, doesn't mean we don't spend 80% of time during a rally putzing around on public roads. Though probably a greater risk of head injury from roll cage on transit than submarining ever so we should be required to wear our helmets during rallying at all time, except that would be illegal based on road laws probably.

This is also why I am so fucking livid and pissed off and want to throw a steaming hot pot of coffee in the fucking retarded CARS board for their asinine decision that 2WD cars need restrictors and displacement/cylinder limitations. I tone it down because I don't want to make it into personal attacks but this is something that is based on some fucktards, probably with a BS or certificate in engineering, theoretical theory of theoretical rallying.

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Grant Hughes

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john vanlandingham
Poor thinking and poor reasoning is my subject.

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Ok, how about your constant argument against a straw man "do or die" mentality and alarmism no one has shown?

Your request for annecdotes you feel are only valuable regardless of test data, physics and math. Even though you yourself said an incident where a hans was in use could not prove the value of the hans.

Sorry I don't follow the first part. Never was much of a "debater" , I believe we are engaged in a converstaion--a multiple dialog, not a JrHi nit picky thing so I don't understand your first part..but people have said "people are going to die if they look at what you wrote" or some such.

I said he has nothing to compare that crash to in order to say--definitively---that the HANS did anything...It's about focusing on where errors in thinking occur, and the difference between knowledge and belief.

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The argument that beause it's never happened means it not worth any amount of effort, no matter how slight, to protect against even though there is data to show it can happen.

I did not say or suggest that, did not say "not worth ANY amount of effort " or thought.. I sugesteded, as always a reasonable assement of likely risks based on know RALLY CAR CRASHES.

The no matter how slight is what you said.
And I haven't seen rally car crash data showing that submarining is a chronic problem.. "Logic" about crashing into solid concrete walls, or girls in back seats with lap belt only is not pertinent or applicable..

I could counter that the normal aircraft harness is 4 point--that's where the things came from originally, but aircraft don't roll over and bounce off of trees-=--they hit things solid and hard--and at twice or more the speed we'll ever do--and they are extremely lightly built---wrong comparison so i don't bring that data up.

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You seem to be twisting everything around to make your already determined conclusions the correct one.

Everything? I only said I do feel compelled to use it and then went on to suggest that it is folly to waste a lotta time arguing how many angles can dance on the head of a pin.

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I do also notice the entirely unproductive ad hominum attacks againt John.

It's all some are able to do since they have never rallied, never will rally and hate life cause they live at home with mommy and daddy and hate themselves because they're a loser before they even start.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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NoCoast
Ya know, the problem here is precedent. John, you are wasting time typing. Go weld something or something.


This is also why I am so fucking livid and pissed off and want to throw a steaming hot pot of coffee in the fucking retarded CARS board for their asinine decision that 2WD cars need restrictors and displacement/cylinder limitations. I tone it down because I don't want to make it into personal attacks but this is something that is based on some fucktards, probably with a BS or certificate in engineering, theoretical theory of theoretical rallying.

Grant today its welding one set but I have like 5 sets done for packing!!! And billing!!! Ack! I need people to send the dough quick!


And yeah the "tech guy" over there....I'm trying to be as polite with him as humanly possible...but there is no logic, and an outrageous disregarding of the point of why people--wisely--have been choosing these simple turbo cars. They don't get a D they get a big fat F for FAAAAWK!

(You get the insert?)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The child booster seats I have for my two kids have an anti-submarine belt that slips over the factory belt. They're really more for keeping that lap belt where it supposed to be low on your hips, not for a whole body sliding out the bottom though the firewall and into the engine block.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

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fiasco
The child booster seats...

Absolutely correct.

OEM belts are designed for adults where the lap and shoulder belts join at the buckle low down beside the hip. If you put a child, or even an adult with narrow hips, into a three point belt system where the buckle stalk is too long, when you pull the belt tight it draws the buckle across the body. No matter how tight you pull the lap belt, any load on the shoulder belt will yank the buckle up into the belly.

Booster seats are intended to raise the child higher up so that the buckle stays low down beside their hip, rather than up in their belly.

An anti-submarine belt on a booster seat is a good thing.

What's the chest strap for on child car seats? I know most people have it connected low near the 5th point and they say that's wrong. I assumed it's to disperse load through the car seat.
I have to say that my wife's commute to the lab scares me way more than anything.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
What's the chest strap for on child car seats?

Grant, do you mean the chest clip that ties the two shoulder belts together?

It is basically only there to keep the child from fidgeting and wiggling out of the shoulder straps. It is not a structural member. The cheap plastic clip typically shatters in a crash test anyway.

It should be high enough up to keep the shoulder straps in place, just below shoulder height, but not so far up that it's choking the child.

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NoCoast
This is also why I am so fucking livid and pissed off and want to throw a steaming hot pot of coffee in the fucking retarded CARS board for their asinine decision that 2WD cars need restrictors and displacement/cylinder limitations. I tone it down because I don't want to make it into personal attacks but this is something that is based on some fucktards, probably with a BS or certificate in engineering, theoretical theory of theoretical rallying.

It just isn't fair that those two wheel drive cars may be able to go faster anywhere then the Stars in Rallying....

You should know this by now.

Question has to be who the next stars are going to be.... Phuched as many of us were looking forward to having fun in fast cars in Canuckistan. Buzzing along slowly or spending a bajillion dollars on a N/A arrangement to have one that goes good? No thanks.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

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john vanlandingham

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Doivi Clarkinen

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Dazed_Driver
Wow. I have no words for how retarded John's advice was. Seriously dude?

Timm, you know as well as I do that if we were all saying that crotch straps weren't really necessary then he would be calling us all idiots and explaining how wrong we were.

Bullshit Dave, you talk too much bullshit.
Name one person you know in a rally car that has slipped under from lack of santi-submarine belt.
You can't.
So bite me with your contrariness explanation.

Timmy is stupid and has shown he cannot understand the simplest of concepts. So his comments are worth what they always have been---net negative: subtracting from the already limited amount of thinking in the world.

You ought to be able to understand the difference between the way people are painting the picture-- IT IS CERTAIN DEATH FROM SLIDING UNDER OH NOEZ---and suggesting that "we're all gonna die" is a knee jerk answer NOT BASED on what we do, and what we have seen since way back when we all had 4 point harnesses--and somehow survived.

So give us an example from your own experience instead of being a jerk.

Sigh, you can't even recognize a joke when you see one, John. Where has your sense of humor gone? For shame. (That little smiley face at the end means it's a joke. Doesn't mean it's a good one...)

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Doivi Clarkinen

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john vanlandingham

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Doivi Clarkinen

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Dazed_Driver
Wow. I have no words for how retarded John's advice was. Seriously dude?

Timm, you know as well as I do that if we were all saying that crotch straps weren't really necessary then he would be calling us all idiots and explaining how wrong we were.

Bullshit Dave, you talk too much bullshit.
Name one person you know in a rally car that has slipped under from lack of santi-submarine belt.
You can't.
So bite me with your contrariness explanation.

Timmy is stupid and has shown he cannot understand the simplest of concepts. So his comments are worth what they always have been---net negative: subtracting from the already limited amount of thinking in the world.

You ought to be able to understand the difference between the way people are painting the picture-- IT IS CERTAIN DEATH FROM SLIDING UNDER OH NOEZ---and suggesting that "we're all gonna die" is a knee jerk answer NOT BASED on what we do, and what we have seen since way back when we all had 4 point harnesses--and somehow survived.

So give us an example from your own experience instead of being a jerk.

Sigh, you can't even recognize a joke when you see one, John. Where has your sense of humor gone? For shame. (That little smiley face at the end means it's a joke. Doesn't mean it's a good one...)

No I didn't recognize a joke. You were responding to somebody who seems to be mentally 'challenged", it seemed to be in agreement with his stupid comments..
Exaggerate more, it makes jokes more obvious. Most of what has been written here SEEMS to be not serious, but that may be unintentional...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Let him run without the sub belt, Fawk it. i completely despise the EVERYONE MUST WEAR A SEATBELT law in Maine, not because i dont like to wear mine ( always wear it, i swear). I do not agree with the fact that require those fucktards who do not know any better to wear one. I say abolish that law and we solve all kinds of social issues.
that same logic can be applied to this thread,

If someone asked me to ride in a car without an anti-sub belt, I'd tell them to get stuffed. Before our off at Pines, I insisted the co-driver get the belts adjusted for them. It looked a bit high prior to shakedown, and it was suggested we just go with it. No fucking way, I made our support guys pull the seat out and adjust it. And I'm so, so glad I did.

If you doubt it, try whacking yourself with a 2x4 across your stomach. Then try it across your pelvis and see the difference. And if you follow this advice, you're an idiot

So I see Johns points... being open minded, not following the pack, thinking for oneself etc... all well and good to have his type in our society of Sheeple ... but wrong topic to start tossing it around I'd say. Sure its a topic and yes it brought out a lot of strong opinions... mainly because the idea as a driver, car constructor or navi to be hurt or to hurt someone else because of our negligence or thinking against the "popular" opinion could one cause us undo internal pain and scaring. But could also brand us in our rally world as the douche who didn't do something to do with safety and fucked someone up/killed them...

Thanks for the free thinking, logical thinking talk its much appreciated... but lets talk restrictors or whether we are going to reinforce our control arms... who we are going to vote for or whether vw's make a good rally car... ;-)