danster Haggis Muncher Mega Moderator Location: Haggisland UK Join Date: 01/04/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 409 Rally Car: VWs (for my sins) |
Piddly TDI stuff! ha ha, that could be it, may be you only get the larger engined cars over there then, have you measured the smaller 1.4 and 1.6 petrol models, or the 1.9 SDI. There is definitely more than one strut diameter so only pointed it out in case others are reading in. What you gonna do at the rear with it's separate springs and shocks? I can't believe nobody has suggested scrapping that old VW and just getting a new Fiesta.... Disappointingly not yet a Jackass |
tdrrally edward mucklow Senior Moderator Location: charleston,wv Join Date: 05/31/2011 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 763 Rally Car: ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle |
I can't believe nobody has suggested scrapping that old VW and just getting a new Fiesta....winking smiley
what is like when money is not an issue? I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow! first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it! |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Danny me boyo dis is America, we only do the biggest motor. Only..whatever it is.. Remember: bigger is always better. Andas for your cynical poking fun at my friend well here's the thing: dis galoot said he's just wanting blaze around on back roads up there in Canada where he lives---and its a veritable paradise for a gravel perv-- but he din't say he wanted to rally. See? Obviously to use the quote "nobody wants to see rusty ol beater Golves" but this boy wants to just blaze around---so we don't need to explain why he should dump the car and buy a new Fiesta that has been smacked hard for 10 THOUSAND bucks---to impress others. Got it? Righty right then. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
danster Haggis Muncher Mega Moderator Location: Haggisland UK Join Date: 01/04/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 409 Rally Car: VWs (for my sins) |
Grant MacDonald sounds like a fine Scottish name so I am sure he will be robust enough to deal with the Fiesta gag. And he lives in British Columbia (is that the place where they produce all the cocaine but each line is served with a nice cup of tea and scone with clotted cream and jam.)
I see no mention of da US of A so considered they may have cars there with smaller engines to carbon offset their nations tar sands endeavours.... As this car is not going to be a full on rally car, I merely tried to point out that there may be OEM options that could be utilised to lift the car depending on what the vehicle spec is to start with. GTDIs can come with lower suspension and big wheels, So changing them out for smaller wheels with taller tyres, and bolting on some struts from a different model could have got him in the ballpark, and the cash saved could be put towards the steel sump that Josh wisely suggests. Anyway all the recent Fiesta hype and chat seems to have stopped so that's old news, I am jumping back on the Escort mk2 bandwagon now as I assist my mate with his bitchin Kawasaki Green car. Disappointingly not yet a Jackass Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2013 10:16AM by danster. |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Yes, ALL Bilstein HD struts and Inserts are 'inverted' For the rears, I copied JVABs but before JVAB started selling them :-) I am still 'using' the JVABs. They are in the spare car and have served rally duty in other people's cars as well. Nothing wrong with them but I also have a set of RS&SPs that serve normal rally duty for the MK2 Golf. ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
This post is useless wifout pitchers! John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Grantmac Grant MacDonald Ultra Moderator Location: Victoria, BC Join Date: 12/15/2013 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 18 Rally Car: None |
Danny:
Your solution would probably meet my needs very well except the stock Sachs struts are know to destroy themselves very quickly even under normal road conditions. If I stick with a stock-type strut then the only taller springs will be the VR6 units that I've already got and they are only 170#. I haven't installed them yet but it's the next thing I will do when I get a day to fiddle. Josh: Did you have to modify the rear top-mounts to convert the rear shocks into a coil-over design? Or am I totally off base? Out of curiosity how much static camber are you running on the front? John: As for plating and materials I wasn't going to use anything exotic (steel) and I intend on finishing with a firearms enamel based coating such as Duracoat. Maybe not optimum, but it should do the job. I'm also going to look at the clearance between the strut and the driveshaft at full droop to see if I can drop the strut a little lower in the knucle, which should let me run a slightly longer insert without too many issues. But hey, maybe I'm just swimming up the stream with the project and I should just let someone build me what I'm after. That decision will have to wait until after I get a chance to call. -Grant |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Ultra Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Grant, I am running an Mk2 not an mk4 so the rears are already spring-over shock design so it was easy.
We try to keep camber and toe both as close to zero as possible for gravel. ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Ah but you must if you want the damn things to last. 4130 DOM I'm in the budniss and it took me 10-11 months to find the right stuff...It as to be right ID---unless you want to spend even more effort/time/money boring the ID with 1 thou accuracy... Gotta be thick enough to carve threads on.. That shit is expensive...the whole process is such that the minimum run to do really is about 40 parts. seriously. Production, scale, unit cost, that sorta stuff. (spreading out the cost of any given fuck up out.) Can't paint on the threaded portion---its feels off then jams the spring seats--- John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
DexterVW David Baker Junior Moderator Location: Rhode my Island Join Date: 11/20/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 290 Rally Car: 95 GTI TDI |
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Grantmac Grant MacDonald Ultra Moderator Location: Victoria, BC Join Date: 12/15/2013 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 18 Rally Car: None |
Josh:
Zero camber, very interesting. I always thought that people ran just a little negative so that when the weight transferred to the rear and the front came-up then the tires would be right at zero instead of positive. I also ponder whether the Mk4 running ungodly amounts of caster actually has less traction on the inside wheel during slow turns due to the wheel gaining lots of positive camber. My thought was that running enough negative static camber to make the inside wheel near zero camber at the steering angles used for a fairly slow turn would be beneficial. At higher speeds the weight transfer would be more apparent, but at low speed there isn't much to speak of. I know that running excess caster on my RWD autoX car caused weight-jacking which lead to poor traction out of corners. There is much to think about when you are getting the same wheels to do all the work.
The inserts I'm looking at provide the clearances and bearing surfaces, they are designed to fit inside a wet strut. But perhaps that won't work since it seems that the P36-0370 insert that I thought had 160mm of travel really has about 115mm. But that just comes from an Audi forum, I wish Bilstein would publish dimensions on their stuff like other manufacturers do. Also if they had an easy reference for which strut inserts were used for a particular assembled strut, that would be useful. The paint I'm referring to was specifically designed to be used inside firearms, it is ever possible to get it with friction reducers built in. So I'm fairly confident it would work well in the application. It's not expensive or a difficult process so no big deal if it doesn't pan out. -Grant |
What are the top pin dimensions for the mk4? Could you use a mk2/3 insert in a custom housing? How about a picture of a stock strut and insert? I made my own ghetto coil-overs because I'm near broke most of the time, and I also like to make things. The coil-over sleeve sits on the bracket that holds the knuckle/upright. The sleeves are about $40/ea. Someday I'll pull my inserts out and measure them, then call John so I can get them extended. Or.... I can pull them apart myself Muahahaha! |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Whaddya broke for? Those are the ever so annoying things that I've re-done for the poooooor bastids that get told that's the way to do it. Long lower slider/tube, 160mm travel, valved 300/100, and the wasteful locating register that burns up overall length. Its a start, and its what you have.. Now Grant here keeps referring to some other stuff which I think is the junk like this: That's what I think he's trying to say they go in a normal "wet' ---whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean---tube. Those are the same basic insert 40mm---and in most applications valved utterly wimp-u-larly lame.... Problem is that standard tube have a wall thickness like cheesoid exhaust tubing and are mildly put "noodly" Can you say "bind" and "Bend"? Second problem with those this is the rod is threaded only about 12mm..It threads into a bottom part like this: and center punched twice to lock them in, big pain in the ass... The things YOU have Robert, like the custom ones I supply have the rod threaded about 18-19mm so we can thread it thru the bottom---about 10mm thick---the run a jam nut down on the protruding end to lock the insert in. So we can salvage something there (hack the ears and the bottom off, double the stingy 18mm tall bearings) shorten tube, re-do the insert pin to save maybe 15-19mm LOA Grant, considering that Bilstein makes maybe 8000-9000 part numbers with a million detail differences and 8000 valving and length options--- serious what the hell you think that you are going to figure out? WHO lists any meaningful data on their stuff? Link or it didn't happen. I know a little info here and there but are you "effluent" in technical German and/or Swedish? noch, junge , bist du? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Grantmac Grant MacDonald Ultra Moderator Location: Victoria, BC Join Date: 12/15/2013 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 18 Rally Car: None |
Robert:
What model upright is that? Have you ever taken the insert out just to have a look? Could you throw some calipers on the outside of the tube and get me the diameter? I've actually been toying with getting some junkyard STI struts and doing a bracket-ectomy then running threaded sleeves like you've got there. They are supposed to be a decent damper and people have revalved them. Bonus is they are built to work with the strut-tops I want to use and I can get them for <$200 for a pair with the top mounts. Still only 160mm of travel though and unlike the Bilsteins I couldn't get them upgraded later in life. -Grant |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Infallible Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
40mm John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |